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  #11  
Old 03-10-2008, 06:07 AM
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ECLIPSE ECLIPSE is offline
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I think its a great idea James.
What would be the point of anything we undertake if we kept doing the same thing over and over only to find out we are doing it all wrong, or there could in fact be an easier or better way. I think that all of us (especially me) could pick up allot from the points made by those who know.
I am normally a modeler who builds to what I like. If it looks like a Tiger, its a Tiger. But if I can be given help or told something that I, in my limited ability can fix or change I'll give it a go.
Case in point, my Tiger late that I am Vbenching. I would have been none the wiser that the Tiger I was going to represent had a different pattern Zimm on the turret than on the hull. Thanks to the very friendly and helpful soles here I have now changed to an appropriate one.
I know that being told your pride and joy looks like excrement isn't the best feeling, but I'm sure that while working on your pride and joy, you can be given a guiding hand to make it the best you can is a much better feeling.

On a side note, if some of the singers at my kids concert had this sort of feedback it would be much more enjoyable for the audience.

Cheers all
Pete
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  #12  
Old 03-10-2008, 08:44 AM
Striker Striker is offline
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very good idea.
think that received impartials but constructive comments about your build could be quite a good way to progress.
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  #13  
Old 03-10-2008, 09:11 AM
sharkmouth sharkmouth is offline
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Well,

From someone who doesn't finish anything lately (OK, three years and counting! )... I still think I can offer a honest critique as to what looks good, or is inaccurate. I would NEVER insult someone or try to belittle them as that would be unfair since I have not offered anything (as some have pointed out).

HOWEVER, what if people also post what they are working on or techniques they are trying? Not just finished works. In other words, I just finished soldering three sets of Sherman front mudguards using three different soldering tools. Seeing what others do in soldering, I am more than willing to learn from others.

Personally, I find it easier to spot flaws in other's work than in my own. This is from my day job where I find myself editing other's work and not seeing basic errors in mine. Now, the rule is to work as a team and hand others our work for review. Since it is done for the betterment of the team, brutal honesty is expected, encouraged, and given. As a result, my team has received accolades for our work in an environment where people are 'invisible' to those in charge. I hope that this is the spirit of the forum.

Yet, if I can't play unless I bring along a toy , I understand and will stand on the sidelines.

Regards,
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Last edited by sharkmouth; 06-16-2008 at 01:27 PM.
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  #14  
Old 03-10-2008, 09:40 AM
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Kreighshoer Kreighshoer is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by panzerfaust View Post
Like I say - fragile egos would not need to apply.
Don't want to have the critique done - don't apply. If one is happy with the comments made in one's vBench then it is perfectly okay for them to only look for comments there. Kinda like don't ask, don't tell I guess. The idea is to still do it in a respectful and friendly way- just more honestly.
as i received both kinds of reactions - some nicely packed constructive feedback and silence i can say that harvesting silence is the harder to swallow critique than getting some (several) mistakes pointed out!

as long as the language stays respectful i'd sign up instantly as this is the reason why i joined pa: improving my builds!

i am not afraid of having a build of mine critizised to pieces as long as it is not disintegrated into the last nut and bolt! as long as there won't be any group bashing (or should i say thrashing?) AND (very important!) as long as no personal insulting gets involved like i noticed on several communities all over the web (not modelling specific but general phenomena) i'm in!

as soon as i have the feeling something gets the wrong way i'll be out!

modelling and internet is for fun not for getting angry!

cheers

p.s.: sorry for my silence the recent time but some severe private issues had me to cut back modelling close to zero and i don't know when i will find some inner peace to do modelling again (may be tomorrow or in a week or in a month or never! god knows!)
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  #15  
Old 03-10-2008, 12:04 PM
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I have yet to post any work here but I think it's a great idea. There are so many things that can be shared with constructive criticism versus praise and attaboys. Of course we all must enjoy hearing someone say, " wow, great job" but how does that help anyone grow/expand/learn ? I would love to see a constructive criticism forum just for that purpose.

Obviously to me, if someone were to post in this proposed new section and then feel insulted by having their model critiqued, then they shouldn't be posting in the section at all. Of course personal attacks and insulting harsh words would most likely fall under the job of the moderator of this forum ( IMO ) and would be handled accordingly but from what I've witnessed to date, I don't see that as being a problem here on Planet Armor.

I know that I personally prefer someone pointing out what is inaccurate with my build, or how they think I may improve certain skills over the simple two word posts like " Great job " or " Looks Good ".

I come to the internet to try and learn as much from modelers all over the world, if I wanted pre-assembled, cut and pasted back pats, I could simply show my model to my wife and get the " Looks nice hun " brush off from her.

This is just my opinion and really doesn't amount to a hill of beans but I think when handled and delivered properly, constructive criticism is the most important tool in any modelers arsenal.
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  #16  
Old 03-10-2008, 01:18 PM
sharkmouth sharkmouth is offline
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Hi Ken,

Why don't you post here? I know you finish quite a few models and I am certain those that do not visit the sites you regularly post on would like to see them. And in this new forum, comment constructive critiques and ask questions.

Regards,
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  #17  
Old 03-10-2008, 01:27 PM
Bruga Bruga is offline
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I posted a similar idea some months ago (long ago when I participated on a regular basis)

When comparing a Spanish forum such as Panzernet to the Anglosaxon´s ones -ML, PA, A, etc.- there is a big difference in the approach.

We (in Spain, in a very simplistic and so incorrect picture) are more impulsive and won´t have remorses in not being political correct, even if there is an implicit pact of "friendship" (I will participate in your post only if you do the same in mine, and we will both say "How lovely")

In English-forum (as language) people tend more to focus on encouraging and pointing the good side while there is a real lack of criticism most of the times ("how great", "nice" , etc.)

The important thing would be to say it in a correct manner: not just say what, include why. Justifying in a respectful manner can do no wrong, at least that is what I was tld at school by the Jesuits (I think it works different in "real world")


Regards,

Antonio
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  #18  
Old 03-10-2008, 01:37 PM
DOJO DOJO is offline
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Or how about that we state in the Vbench when we are working on the model that this topic is ok for "target practice" ? Or say in the topics name TP or what ever.
That way there will be no need for a new section and it will be with our other models that we are building just for fun of it.
Bad, good idea?
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  #19  
Old 03-10-2008, 01:54 PM
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Panzergrenadier Panzergrenadier is offline
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I think it is a good idea, but I am afraid it might turn the same as the regular forum area. Would ''pats on the back'' be deleted from that thread? The ''special'' section would have effect, if all the posts there would have some critical value.

Lets give it a try...
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  #20  
Old 03-10-2008, 01:55 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sharkmouth View Post
Hi Ken,

Why don't you post here?
That's a very good question Saul, one that I really don't know the answer to. I seem to have gotten sidetracked a bit, for all the wrong reasons and they aren't really panning out like I had thought they would.

I really enjoy looking at the builds here and have every intention of starting my own vbench. I am just the king of procrastination. I would very much like to be a more active member here and only need to fulfill my previously made promises to others so I can finally get back to modeling for me, for fun and enjoyment. That's one sure fire way to avoid getting let down or disappointed.
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