251/1C

[Finnmodeler]

This is something that I bought long time ago. I was a bit frustrated to see DML upgrading different C-versions and having all kind of PE etc. stuff added to new versions. Anyway as I got some upgrades for this I decided to start this as well. Not that I didn't have enough projects :lol:
http://www.kolumbus.fi/niko.asposalo/251c/251c%20(1).jpg
Some refinements for the model:
http://www.kolumbus.fi/niko.asposalo/251c/251c%20(2).jpg

There are 3 sets from Royal Model but me and my wallet voted only for one set ;) So the first one looks good enough. And Lion Roar PE set complements it quite well. Only thing missing is new floor as DML floor is infested with incorrect holes and too narrow transmission cover. Any homemade suggestions?

More to follow later,

Niko

P.S. I try to kepp pics in my homesite as Kitpic free program doesn't last long:)

[Finnmodeler]

Here is some basic build. I try to keep up the pace before I run out of steam with this :o
http://www.kolumbus.fi/niko.asposalo/251c/251c%20(5).jpg
Parts need some clean up and must be carefully aligned as axels don't fit perfectly.

http://www.kolumbus.fi/niko.asposalo/251c/251c%20(6).jpg
Rear doors will be remade out of aluminium, hopefully... At least I try and if it doesn't work, I just use kit doors. Doors and rear wall is too thick so I'll thin rear wall part from outside.

http://www.kolumbus.fi/niko.asposalo/251c/251c%20(7).jpg
Here is dashboard modified and started with LR PE. As you can see, LR set has a different configuration in firewall. I will add some plastic to sides and rear to hide openings.
From this web site(http://www.geocities.com/motorcity/pit/3515/251/251-int.htm) I found this pic:
http://www.geocities.com/motorcity/pit/3515/251/251-dash.jpg

So I guess it is ok.

Also one HUGE problem with DML 251C is the missing overhead between upper and lower hull. You can see it in box art cover but it is not done to model itself. Very tricky to correct. I'll show my approach to that problem later.

Cheers,
Niko

[James Tainton]

Niko- hope you can keep the steam going on this build- I will be watching with interest. ;)

[Evan August]

Looks good so far. I'm building the /22, and I'm still on the lower hull. Dragon can make some nice kits, and I'm sure they could have done better on the 251s. But with a little hard work, I'm sure they will turn out great.

[Finnmodeler]

Originally posted by Evan August@Mar 30 2005, 11:19 AM
Looks good so far. I'm building the /22, and I'm still on the lower hull. Dragon can make some nice kits, and I'm sure they could have done better on the 251s. But with a little hard work, I'm sure they will turn out great.
Hi,
I had /22, too but was actually a bit intimidated by complexity of part layout so I sold it :) Well, I don't know if it is any better but I have /21 waiting in shelf ;)

Niko

[Stuke Sowle]

For lack of a better word: that's a sh!tload of PE Niko!! :)

I have this kit half built, but went for just an OOB build. Keep an eye out and do a lot of dry fitting on the upper and lower hull halves. I did not and the fit was quite poor.....

[Evan August]

I know what you mean about the /22, I have my concerns about it. Not so much the fit of the hull pieces, but the interior. The whole trimmed gunshield thing is giving me a headache right now, and I think that Dragon made a some mistakes in the forward compartment, like two seats and radio. The /21 looks nice, and has some more extras to improve the kit. But I'm sure all Dragon 251s have issues like the fit of the suspension arms and such. I'm planning to get one of these Ausf Cs and use it with the Leadwarrior kit and Tristar Flak gun for a cool /17.

[Finnmodeler]

Originally posted by Stuke Sowle@Mar 30 2005, 02:39 PM
For lack of a better word: that's a sh!tload of PE Niko!! :)

I have this kit half built, but went for just an OOB build. Keep an eye out and do a lot of dry fitting on the upper and lower hull halves. I did not and the fit was quite poor.....
Hi,
you got that right! I'm sorting out which PE to use from either set and it seems that both have better and worse parts.
And yes, I've been fitting halves together and those are quite tricky. You will see eventually how it turns out.

Niko

[Finnmodeler]

I've been going through instructions from both sets and some things are a bit hazy in LR set.
Can anyone tell what these are for and where to put those?
http://www.kolumbus.fi/niko.asposalo/251c/LR_01.jpg
I guess these are prism holders?
http://www.kolumbus.fi/niko.asposalo/251c/LR_02.jpg
This part looks very nice but there should be two of those! LR set has only one :o
http://www.kolumbus.fi/niko.asposalo/251c/LR_03.jpg

Niko

[Finnmodeler]

Originally posted by Evan August@Mar 30 2005, 02:52 PM
I know what you mean about the /22, I have my concerns about it. Not so much the fit of the hull pieces, but the interior. The whole trimmed gunshield thing is giving me a headache right now, and I think that Dragon made a some mistakes in the forward compartment, like two seats and radio. The /21 looks nice, and has some more extras to improve the kit. But I'm sure all Dragon 251s have issues like the fit of the suspension arms and such. I'm planning to get one of these Ausf Cs and use it with the Leadwarrior kit and Tristar Flak gun for a cool /17.
Hi,
how about using AFV's C? That is a more trouble free, I heard. And Leadwarrior conversion is very impressive. If I had money, I'd take one.

And yes, interior of /22 is awful as you don't know what goes where etc. Good luck with your project:)

Niko

[panamadan]

Originally posted by Stuke Sowle@Mar 30 2005, 02:39 PM
For lack of a better word: that's a sh!tload of PE Niko!! :)

I have this kit half built, but went for just an OOB build. Keep an eye out and do a lot of dry fitting on the upper and lower hull halves. I did not and the fit was quite poor.....
I just picked up the 251/21-I didn't know there was a fit issue on the upper and lower hull. I wonder if I should mount the AAA in AFV's 251?...

[Finnmodeler]

Originally posted by panamadan@Mar 31 2005, 04:55 PM
I just picked up the 251/21-I didn't know there was a fit issue on the upper and lower hull. I wonder if I should mount the AAA in AFV's 251?...
Hi,
I guess Stuke meant fit problems with C-version. I'm not sure if D-version fits better. You can check from James Tainton's DML 251/9 Vbench, there may be some info regarding that. In any case, DML is not SO BAD that you can't build it.
But mating Drilling with AFV Club's model sounds intriguing:)

Niko

[Stuke Sowle]

My fit problem was with the C version and was more my mistake than DML's. If I had paid close attention and dry fitted the parts a few more times I wouldn't have gotten myself into the trouble that I diid.

I have not heard of fit issues on the D series of 251's from DML.

[panamadan]

I see. I'm a big fan of AFV Club's kit's, I guess that I'm biased. I also read a review on Perth's web page comparing the two kits; I think that AFV's comes out slightly better. :lol:

[Finnmodeler]

As my modelling doesn't follow any instructions, I tend to do pieces from here and there. If it is good or bad, I don't know. Perhaps as long as you do something, it's good...Right? :lol:

I wanted to see how Royal Model sprocket wheels come together.
http://www.kolumbus.fi/niko.asposalo/251c/sprockets.jpg

Here are the parts with tool needed. Saw is from Tri-Tool set and it's quite handy with resin parts.
http://www.kolumbus.fi/niko.asposalo/251c/cutting.jpg
Here is sawing on it's way. No problems here, only resin dust is very annoying as it tends to be filled with static electricity :angry:

http://www.kolumbus.fi/niko.asposalo/251c/ready.jpg

One ready and as mentioned in PMMS review, small slice must be cut from teeth so track shoes will fit.

[Finnmodeler]

Next some odds and ends.
http://www.kolumbus.fi/niko.asposalo/251c/floor.jpg

Floor has some nasty holes from water tank which isn't suitable for /1 version. I glued plastic strips to holes but it is not ready yet. Somehow floor pattern should be replicated. I haven't figured out it yet. If I could find tread pattern PE somewhere I could rebuild the whole damned floor as it isn't too convincing anyway.

http://www.kolumbus.fi/niko.asposalo/251c/front.jpg

Glued few PE parts and RM resin parts.

http://www.kolumbus.fi/niko.asposalo/251c/roof.jpg

Roof is Lion Roar PE and grey front plate from Royal Model. I must say that RM has really improved it's PE material. Now it's thinner and easier to handle.

[Finnmodeler]

Dashboard is a combination of RM and LR parts. LR uses quite soft metal so you must be very careful when handling those delicate parts. I managed to do some scratches to dashborad as I was removing superglue.

http://www.kolumbus.fi/niko.asposalo/251c/dashboard2.jpg

Almost all parts are added. New drive wheel system is way better than detailless DML part.

http://www.kolumbus.fi/niko.asposalo/251c/wheel.jpg

Modified kit part with hub from Roayl Model.

More to follow later,

Niko

[James Tainton]

http://www.kitpic.com/is.php?i=11131&img=thumb.jpg

[serpico]

Aber sells treadplate in various patterns, you would have to cut them to size tho...

Part also sells an interior floor for the D model in PE, would it work for the C vesion that's the question?

Be careful not to breath any of the resin dust, is pretty harmful to the old brain. I use a respirator when doing resin.

Looks like a fun project tho...thanks for the pics.

serpico

[Evan August]

Nice dashboard. Are the kit parts completely replaced with PE? I'll have to look into the AFV Ausf C for the /17.

[Finnmodeler]

Originally posted by serpico@Apr 1 2005, 09:33 PM
Aber sells treadplate in various patterns, you would have to cut them to size tho...

Part also sells an interior floor for the D model in PE, would it work for the C vesion that's the question?

Be careful not to breath any of the resin dust, is pretty harmful to the old brain. I use a respirator when doing resin.

Looks like a fun project tho...thanks for the pics.

serpico
Hi,
thanks for suggestions. I contacted a local model shop today and I was informed they have Eduard treadplates, 3 different versions. I'll get from those what I need.
I did use Part in my Tamiya 251D project and it turned out quite ok. It might fit but as Part is not imported to Finland, I'll drop that option.
As for resin dust, I'll try to keep it minimum especially as there are small children living in the house. This resin discussion has been covered in a local bulletin board so it's harmful features are known.


Niko

[Finnmodeler]

Here is quite literally a small update:

Added Royal Model head pads to roof. These look much better than Lion Roar PE versions.
http://www.kolumbus.fi/niko.asposalo/251c/3_roof%20with%20pads.jpg

This is the ammorack which is very nice looking, unfortunately LR provides only one rack :(
http://www.kolumbus.fi/niko.asposalo/251c/3_ammorack.jpg

Stand glued in place. The actual ammocases are from RM.
http://www.kolumbus.fi/niko.asposalo/251c/3_ammorack2.jpg

Niko

[serpico]

The ammo rack looks kinda loose fitting doesn't it? Did the ammo drums just sit in the rack with no tie downs or method to keep them from rattling around in the vehicle...call me ignorant on this one as I have no references handy.

The Lion Roar PE looks nice tho.

How is the PE to bend?

Regards, Serpico

[Finnmodeler]

Originally posted by serpico@Apr 2 2005, 08:06 PM
The ammo rack looks kinda loose fitting doesn't it? Did the ammo drums just sit in the rack with no tie downs or method to keep them from rattling around in the vehicle...call me ignorant on this one as I have no references handy.

The Lion Roar PE looks nice tho.

How is the PE to bend?

Regards, Serpico
Hi,
you are correct. Drums should be in contact with rack from both sides. I didn't notice that at 2AM. From here you can see the correct composition. I have to check if DML ammo drums are a bit bigger.
Here is a link from Panzerfaust: http://www.germanmilitaria.co.uk/index2.htm
Lion Roar PE is a softer than Eduard, quite similar with Aber. I like it.

Niko

[Stuke Sowle]

Fantastic work on those tiny bits!

[Finnmodeler]

Originally posted by Stuke Sowle@Apr 3 2005, 04:12 AM
Fantastic work on those tiny bits!
Thanks,
those pieces are getting ever smaller, I'll try to take a pic to show :lol:

Niko

[Dragan]

looks great especcialy dashboard :thumb:

[Finnmodeler]

Originally posted by Dragan@Apr 3 2005, 02:46 PM
looks great especcialy dashboard :thumb:
Thank you:) I forgot to add all procedures used in that.

As in every decent PE dashboard set, dials are provided as in clear acetate. LR does that, too. Unfortunately red portion in the biggest dial is printed with black! So this part must be painted from front.
First I taped area to be painted with Tamiya masking tape. Next I carefully painted area with Vallejo Red, it doesn't matter if paint goes outside of painted area as it will hidden under PE dashboard. Backside of acetate was painted with Vallejo White and only in areas behind dials. This because acetate is superglued and I think glue sticks better without paint :)

Niko

[Finnmodeler]

As Serpico pointed out ammo rack setting was a bit loose. Here it is with DML ammo drums and looks some what tighter :) Royal Model ammo drums were meant for Royal Model ammo rack so I'll give a try on those, too. Especially considering there are two of those.
http://www.kolumbus.fi/niko.asposalo/251c/corrected.jpg

Also started working with fire extinguisher but first try didn't work very well as you can see :( So I decided to give up tonight and restart tomorrow
http://www.kolumbus.fi/niko.asposalo/251c/fire%20extinguisher.jpg

Niko

[Finnmodeler]

Today I got floor plate PE, Eduard German floor plate 1 n:o 35142. It has the correct pattern for 251. DML has made kit floor as a negative of this pattern so it looks quite awful not to mention patterin isn't in sides of transmission box. Also when you leave out water tank it leaves big holes to fill. So only option is to get PE with correct pattern to fix it either ready made parts like from Royal model set or build those your self.
I decided to build those myself as I don't have time or patience to wait for postage:) It is also a money issue and I have already enough stuff for this project.
Transmission box cover is quite complicated in shape so it looks very challenging. But with a trick I learnt from TMMI two issues ago, was to use Tamiya masking tape. AS you may already know Tamiya tape is soft yet doesn't stretch. Afterwards this was actually very simple and rewarding:)

http://www.kolumbus.fi/niko.asposalo/251c/Transmission%20panels%20(1).jpg
Here is first part covered with tape. By using sharp knife I opened corners of tape before removing it.
http://www.kolumbus.fi/niko.asposalo/251c/Transmission%20panels%20(2).jpg
This is the more complex part under covering work(Was that English at all?:D). I added small strips at a time so I managed to finally cover it all.
http://www.kolumbus.fi/niko.asposalo/251c/Transmission%20panels%20(3).jpg
This is the end result before cutting the corners and removing.
http://www.kolumbus.fi/niko.asposalo/251c/Transmission%20panels%20(4).jpg
Tape schablones? are moved to flat side of PE. It is easier to cut and tapes stick better.
http://www.kolumbus.fi/niko.asposalo/251c/Transmission%20panels%20(5).jpg
First part cut. I left some excess to part so I could trim it easier. I cut part with normal nail scissors.
http://www.kolumbus.fi/niko.asposalo/251c/Transmission%20panels%20(6).jpg
Part bent and in place.
http://www.kolumbus.fi/niko.asposalo/251c/Transmission%20panels%20(7).jpg
Second part cut and ready to bending.I used flat pliers to bend part as it was easiest and quickest way.
http://www.kolumbus.fi/niko.asposalo/251c/Transmission%20panels%20(8).jpg
Parts trimmed and put in place. I haven't glued those yet as there is lot to do still even with these two parts. One hatch have to be added and also add a part sitting above transmission.(Don't know name or purpose for it but I'll add later on)

Niko

[Finnmodeler]

For a while I've been doing other projects for a national model show in few weeks. This one is not going to be ready for this year :lol:
Anyway, I wanted to add similar lower chassis pans as in new Dragon Drilling kit. So I copied PE parts to 0.005" Plasticard. I taped PE to edge of plastic and cut carefully with sharp knife new part. I triimed part and glued with Tamiya extra thin glue.
Here are the results for first one.
http://www.kolumbus.fi/niko.asposalo/251c/lower_chassis_pan1.jpg
http://www.kolumbus.fi/niko.asposalo/251c/lower_chassis_pan2.jpg
http://www.kolumbus.fi/niko.asposalo/251c/lower_chassis_pan3.jpg

As soon as I get other one side made and have added missing bolts, I'll send more pics.

Niko

[Donovan]

Niko,

What ever happened to this one??

Now that I'm building a little 251C I went back and re-read this one hoping for more :(

Cheers,
Christopher

[Finnmodeler]

Originally posted by Donovan@Dec 7 2005, 11:09 AM
Niko,

What ever happened to this one??

Now that I'm building a little 251C I went back and re-read this one hoping for more :(

Cheers,
Christopher
Sorry to say but for some reason I ran out of steam with this one. It's been waiting for a while now. I did get some progress with this. I have to check and update this one.
As I have Lionroar and Royal Model sets for this, those confuse a bit as there are some interlapping parts. It's hard to decide which ones to use :lol:

I'll get back on this,

Niko

[Finnmodeler]

Well,
last night I kicked this project a bit forward. I'll get some pics asap. There's been some serious soldering of Lionroar and that is slow work for me as I don't master that skill very well. Also for some reason soldering tips seem to "burn" too fast. When tip burns out/down/up/in what ever, solder doesn't stick to it and heat doesn't transfer to parts :(
One big omission I noticed with Lionroar PE is that it provides nice stowage bins with hatches and latches but no hinges! This means that I have to SB ones to show bin open.

Niko

[Finnmodeler]

There is an update to this project. I have used lot of time to this but not much results to be seen.

New floor is made of Eduard PE panel. Panel lines are drawn, not actually cut. Lazy me!

http://www.kolumbus.fi/niko.asposalo/251c/251_1.jpg

Most time consuming parts so far, side bins and 6 of them. In pic is shown only two, one fully soldered and other unfinished one. As I said earlier, hinges are missing so those have to be added if hatch is to be shown open.

http://www.kolumbus.fi/niko.asposalo/251c/251_2.jpg

Royal model seats with some parts added. These looked so nice so I left PE stuff for another project.

http://www.kolumbus.fi/niko.asposalo/251c/251_3.jpg

As DML is missing a feature, I wanted to add that. Feature is lip of upper hull over lower hull side. I have sanded and sanded and sanded lower hull sides to get them thinner. This pic doesn't show it but I have managed to sand enough. I ran into trouble with rear part. More of that later.

http://www.kolumbus.fi/niko.asposalo/251c/251_4.jpg

Roof part with added details. One part got loose so that must be added.

http://www.kolumbus.fi/niko.asposalo/251c/251_5.jpg

This was a small update but more to follow next week. Looks like camera I'm using is not suitable for macro pics. Most of the details can't be seen from pics.


Niko

[Donovan]

Good idea with the sanding of the lower hull. I might be trying that on mine. Dragon has no overhang on the 1/72 version either.

Cheers,
Christopher

[mnickolson]

Looking good their. How is the Lion Roar PE? I have a few sets but have not used it yet.

[Larry Bates]

It's coming along Niko,
Keep it going!

Larry :thumb:

[Finnmodeler]

Originally posted by Donovan@Dec 9 2005, 10:14 AM
Good idea with the sanding of the lower hull. I might be trying that on mine. Dragon has no overhang on the 1/72 version either.

Cheers,
Christopher
Thanks, problem now is rear plate that lost the correct angles. Well, partly of my incorrect sanding. I have to rebuild it from plasticard.
Even thou sanding lower plates sounds easy, I ran into troubles. It is rather difficult to sand plastic evenly. I will do fine tuning with this for a long time :lol:
DML hasn't corrected this mistake to their latest 251's so guess that will not be a feature in Dragon's.
It may be a bit easier in 72 scale as parts are smaller. Good luck with it, Donovan :)

Niko

[Finnmodeler]

Originally posted by mnickolson@Dec 9 2005, 11:39 AM
Looking good their. How is the Lion Roar PE? I have a few sets but have not used it yet.
My opinions for LR are divided. They do nice PE sets that are easier to mange than Aber but still more detail rich than Eduard. Downside is that some of the parts do not fit or are incorrect.
As parts are not plated, those are easier to solder.

Niko