First VBench M2A1 with Lions Roar upgrade

[Moon Puppy]

Man I'm looking forward to this. A little background. I started this build about 9/29 with a build thread at a couple of different sites. Almost immediately someone pointed me to PA and Rick Lawlers build of this kit. I really enjoyed reading his VBench and he has been a GREAT help getting this thing put together. I'm in awe of the build you guys have done here and the painting, wow! I only hope I can reach a fraction of the artistic talent you all have on display here.

IO notice you guys post the sprues and instructions for your builds but since Rick did the same on his thread i'll avoid the redundancy.

If you would like to see some of the other stuff I've done in the recent past let me know, most of my builds in the last year and a half are at Swanny's Forum, I've been doing Aircraft primarily since I got back in the hobby after a 14 year hiatus. This is my first Armor I've done with the exception of a 1:24 Jeep I did for my Dad (http://cs.finescale.com/forums/819527/ShowPost.aspx)

If it's OK with yous guys I'm going to post my progress thus far.

And so it begins...
http://www.brittsbytes.com/halftrack/m2a10929.jpg

Started cleaning up the resin parts, starting with the frame and engine, debating on getting the K59 suspension kit (http://www.perthmilitarymodelling.com/reviews/vehicles/k59/k59_c008.html) mainly for the idler spring. Seems Lions Roar didn't want to deal with the undercarriage to much. The only thing I know right now is I got some brass to fold and need to stock up on OD.

Well here's my progress.

Henges...

Kudos to Rick Lawler over at Planet Armor for this technique:
http://www.brittsbytes.com/halftrack/m2a1100500.jpg
Here's the first part, the second is the opposite hinge with a single tongue. What happens is you start the bend at the base of the hinge and interleave the two parts,

http://www.brittsbytes.com/halftrack/m2a1100502.jpg
What I did was use superglue and secured both parts on glass plate, after I did a couple of them I started working 3 or 4 at a time as you see here.

http://www.brittsbytes.com/halftrack/m2a1100503.jpg
Next take the .03mm wire and lay it over the interleaved tongues and secure both ends with tape. You can't see in this image but I started folding the outside tongues to secure the wire. I then started working from the outside to the inside till all tongues were folded over the wire.


http://www.brittsbytes.com/halftrack/m2a1100504.jpg
Then I came back and gave it a bit more push on the tongues to secure them and clean up loose ends.

http://www.brittsbytes.com/halftrack/m2a1100505.jpg
Popped off the hinges from the glass and slide the hinge to the end of the wire and clip the wire leaving the hinge pin in place. The only thing I'm worried about is the ease the pin comes out, need to figure out how to secure the pin, I'd like to score the wire in some way instead of a drop of glue. will test tomorrow.


http://www.brittsbytes.com/halftrack/m2a1100506.jpg
And the product for today's work? A Bag o' Hinges.

Thanks for looking

10/06
Here's today's work
http://www.brittsbytes.com/halftrack/m2a1100601.jpg

As you can see the paint is literally drying. Doncha love the Idler Spring, all the way from Hong Kong! looks good but should have scratched it. You can see the kit engine in the back ground, not bad by itself but this one from LR is MUCH better. The triangular object is the radiator housing, mostly PE - the radiator itself. I opted to us CA on the PE, especially on the cosmetic stuff like the lip around the fan shroud, which you can't see well in this photo.

Working on the road wheels and the rear suspension next.

Thanks so much for your help Rick and please feel free to comment, galk or laugh at what I'm doing.[D)]

10/12
Here's progress so far.

A smudged acrylic black wash over enamel base, oddly the OD base started coming up with the Windex I use for acrylic thinner, even after an acrylic gloss coat. going to do a dusty wash next then a flat clearcoat and some dry brushing then move forward.

Here's the engine, I do plan on having the hood either working, or posed open. I thought long and hard about trying to pose the wheels turned but cutting the tie rod would have been to hairy for me.

http://www.brittsbytes.com/halftrack/m2a1101201.jpg
Spark Plug wires are .015 solder with a glob of CA on the end to attempt to look like the rubber boot over the spark plug. I could not find a picture of the engine so I'm not 100% sure on the firing order but I"m sure someone will correct me somewhere.

http://www.brittsbytes.com/halftrack/m2a1101202.jpg
I was worried about the wash because it looked so thick but viewing here it does not look so bad. I have the water hoses to do and the radiator is just sitting there right now, think a wee bit a rust is in order.

http://www.brittsbytes.com/halftrack/m2a1101203.jpg
low light shot

http://www.brittsbytes.com/halftrack/m2a1101204.jpg
I"d like to run gas lines but not sure about the routing from the fuel pump to the carb.

http://www.brittsbytes.com/halftrack/m2a1101205.jpg
Here the exhaust is in place, used MM Metalizer Burnt Iron for the manifold and exhaust pipe. Note, install the exhaust support BEFORE you finish the tracks, it weren't easy putting it in place.

http://www.brittsbytes.com/halftrack/m2a1101206.jpg


http://www.brittsbytes.com/halftrack/m2a1101207.jpg


http://www.brittsbytes.com/halftrack/m2a1101208.jpg


http://www.brittsbytes.com/halftrack/m2a1101209.jpg

The Idler Spring may look funny because I had to extend the spring some to make it look like the spring was in contact with the rod. I really hate these tracks. they were a bear to install and work with. SURELY someone has some Aftermarket tracks for this thing.

Well there it is so far. That's the majority of the plastic for this bad boy, starting next week with the rear compartment.

At this point I started with the PE parts but using CA, Rick and others talked me in to using solder so i'll jump to that post next.

[Moon Puppy]

10/20
Look at me, I"m a solderin'!

So I pulled everything apart and started over. Cleaned up the CA as much as I could, may not have been as good as it should have been, that will explain why this stuff looks so ugly. This step I was attempting the tinning technique but found that my soldering iron was not up to the job of transferring heat well. So I upgraded to a 40 watt iron, WOW, what a difference!
http://www.brittsbytes.com/halftrack/m2a1102004.jpg
Here you can see how the new iron was able to "run a bead" down the seam line. I will not make the seating deck movable but the floor plate does,

http://www.brittsbytes.com/halftrack/m2a1102000.jpg
http://www.brittsbytes.com/halftrack/m2a1102001.jpg
just out of curiosity, what was the purpose of the floor plate being on hinge because it opens right on top of the rear crossmemeber. I don't see how it could be any use.
http://www.brittsbytes.com/halftrack/m2a1102002.jpg
On the subject of hinges I still plan on having the engine hinges work, I'm glad I Was able to get these to work but it is very tedious working

http://www.brittsbytes.com/halftrack/m2a1102003.jpg
This view you can see the progression of practice and patience. Using less solder to get'er done and much less to clean up. I am not tinning now, what I"m doing is using the flux to secure the part, place some bits of solder in the flux and then run the iron down the seem, the solder melts and runs into the seam just like TEnax7 almost. Looks so kewl when it's working well.
http://www.brittsbytes.com/halftrack/m2a1102005.jpg

And how it will look, and thanks for looking!

11/02
A little background here, "Old Dog" over at Swanny's offered up some solder paste for me to try on this build.

I got Old Dog's solder paste in the mail yesterday and I've done some testing. While waiting on OD little package in the mail I got impatient and went to Lowes and found some solder paste(water cleanup) there. Did some work with the el'chepo and compare it to what OD sent.

First a eye ball test:
http://www.brittsbytes.com/halftrack/m2a1110201.jpg
The sample on the left is the cheap stuff from Lowes, the sample on the right, From OD. I could see a great deal of difference between the samples, OD's Paste has more fine solder embedded in the flux. When using this product in holding a part in place it's much more tacky than the cheap stuff I found.

Second the heat test:
http://www.brittsbytes.com/halftrack/m2a1110202.jpg
Apply heat and....

Third the result test:
http://www.brittsbytes.com/halftrack/m2a1110203.jpg
I think this speaks for itself. the cheap stuff I found heats up and solidifies with a bunch of contaminates, the residue is just ugly while on the other side, the product Old Dog sent heats up and solidifies clean and pretty, even the residue is clean for the most part. Guess what product i'm using for now! Must be some of that NASA stuff our tax dollars paid for.

http://www.brittsbytes.com/halftrack/m2a1110204.jpg
OK this is where i'm at now, this is the gas tank soldered in with elcheapo solderpaste

http://www.brittsbytes.com/halftrack/m2a1110205.jpg
And this is with the good stuff.

That's about all I've done this week, all the storage boxes are secured. Now I got some details to add like the tie downs and the rear rack. Then we move forward to the cab.

Thanks for looking...

OK so here's a question for you armor guys. What color primer was used on U.S. Armor vehicles?

11/03

Got up this AM and went to town to vote, actually just dropped off the absentee ballots for me and My Bride, then got back to the ranch style house to get to work.

Did a lot of work in the rear compartment. I bypassed some detail stuff during the major construction because of my concern than the heat from other soldering other parts would cause them to need to be reworked. Mistake...It was a bear to get the supports for the footrails in place but they are done. The seat frames were pretty straight forward, should have installed both of these assemblies before getting to the point that I did.
http://www.brittsbytes.com/halftrack/m2a1110306.jpg
http://www.brittsbytes.com/halftrack/m2a1110307.jpg

Now with that done for the most part, except for some external details I started with the "origami" exercise. This assembly is actually only 3 parts. It is the floorboard of the cab.
http://www.brittsbytes.com/halftrack/m2a1110303.jpg
http://www.brittsbytes.com/halftrack/m2a1110304.jpg

Rick, I don't know how you STARTED on this assembly, if I started here I"d been turning all this brass into a lamp or something out of frustration. I figred Lions Roar thought that if someone can get past the first two parts being joined the rest is a piece of cake. This new "Mr Super Solder" (not real product, Kester is the brand of solder) is really helping also.



Had a really hard time getting these folds clipped and secured for soldering so I took one for the build
http://www.brittsbytes.com/halftrack/m2a1110305.jpg
Actually it doesn't hurt that bad, I'll tough it out.


http://www.brittsbytes.com/halftrack/m2a1110302.jpg
http://www.brittsbytes.com/halftrack/m2a1110300.jpg
http://www.brittsbytes.com/halftrack/m2a1110301.jpg
And here are some early dry fits, there will be a lot of those as this goes forward.

Well that's it for this week most likely, got to wait for the burns to heal and the eyes to readjust.

[Moon Puppy]

So thanks for letting me share here, I hope I can at least match a fraction of the skill and talent i've seen on this site.
One outstanding question I have is, what color was U.S. Armor primed in?

Thanks for looking!

[RickLawler]

Welcome to the Planet!

Good job on getting everyone caught up on your progress to date. As you can see, MP has been scooting right along with this - and I've only counted one burnt finger so far!

Later,
Rick

[Moon Puppy]

Hehe.. that's the only one you've seen. I'm hiding the accidental burns, you know like the one where I grabbed the soldering iron from the wrong end...don't ask. That pinky burn was the cost of holding that fold in place where I couldn't get a clamp on.

Last night I got the firewall installed, awfully plain. I know you did yours with the hood down but have you seen any photos of the engine compartment? I would like to run some electrical lines and what not to make it look less spartan.

[Phillip1944]

Looks very nice :thumb:

[Peter]

Man, you´re grazy!
But I like it :)

Great work, keep us posted!

Peter

[Sturmmann]

Man that is soldering like a madman! :D hahaha Great progress. :thumb:

dave

[Flak]

Wow...great work...keep it up :)

[serpico]

So thanks for letting me share here, I hope I can at least match a fraction of the skill and talent i've seen on this site.
One outstanding question I have is, what color was U.S. Armor primed in?

Thanks for looking!

MP...

US armor was primed in Oxide Red I believe, hope this helps!

Nice looking model, last time I soldered that much, it was circuit boards, haha.

Nice to see another US halftrack...:D

Regards, Paul

[Moon Puppy]

Thanks for the info Serpico, will make use of it.
Thanks for the kind words guys!

[Robcio]

Wow, great soldering job, Moon Puppy!

[Moon Puppy]

Quick post, heading out the door to the Veterans Day Parade.

I"m jumping around a bit on the instructions because heat issues. Working on the floor board instructions call for some of the plastic from the kit but knowing that the side walls were next in line it was no way that plastic is oing to take this heat!

http://www.brittsbytes.com/halftrack/m2a1110904.jpg
The ELcheapo torch I had died after the first fuel cell emptied, (took it back and got my money back). then I remembered I had this thing tucked back somewhere. Dug through old tool boxes and BINGO, got a can of butane and we're in business again.

http://www.brittsbytes.com/halftrack/m2a1110902.jpg
I found that these two splash guard parts are critical in the alignment of the side walls so I started here, soldered the sidewalls to these parts but it still allowed me some range of movement to aligned the sidewalls forward.

http://www.brittsbytes.com/halftrack/m2a1110900.jpg
Here is an arrangement of heat sinks to protect the firewall from being desoldered, it's already happened once...

http://www.brittsbytes.com/halftrack/m2a1110901.jpg
After much work I found that the side walls were NOT squared up with each other and the radiator cover would be cranked over to one side if I went forward,

http://www.brittsbytes.com/halftrack/m2a1110903.jpg
So back we went....It's not as drastic as it looks. simply clamp off what you don't want to fall off and fire up the torch. Try that with plastic goobers!!! :D :D

My Bride is tapping her foot...out the door we go, may post more this evening.

[Moon Puppy]

Hey Rick!
I want to bounce something off you, see what you think. I'm having trouble getting the side walls squared up and hitting the score/alignment marks on the inside. Trouble starts when I try flush up the wall with C19(18), the parts you have trouble with and had to remove and scratch build.

Here's what I'm thinking of doing. Attach the side walls to the rear compartment outer edge where they are suppose to meet and then bring in the floor board and attach it to the rear compartment and sidewalls making sure everything is nice and level and square, including radiator cover/louver. I know the instructions call for both Cab and REar compartment to be joined as two separate builds but dang man, with no alignment tabs it ain't easy. Does this make sense, what do you think?

[RickLawler]

I know the instructions call for both Cab and REar compartment to be joined as two separate builds but dang man, with no alignment tabs it ain't easy

Ya, I know - try starting with this section! I found that if you just tac a corner, then slowly tac another place that you eventually will get it...and with only a small tac it's easy to un-solder and realign if necessary.

Attach the side walls to the rear compartment outer edge where they are suppose to meet and then bring in the floor board and attach it to the rear compartment and sidewalls making sure everything is nice and level and square, including radiator cover/louver

If I'm following you...you're suggesting to basically continue working from the back toward the front - then slide the floor plate from underneath when after the exterior parts have been attached...yes?

In theory I think that it would work. It's still going to be tricky getting/making sure that you are square.

How about working a sub from the front back...ie. attach the hood sidewalls to the front radiator/louver piece to makes sure that the front end is square - then attach that to the cab floor assembly?

I'll pull out my instructions again to have them handy as you move through this...

Luck,
Rick

[Moon Puppy]

Ya, I know - try starting with this section! I found that if you just tac a corner, then slowly tac another place that you eventually will get it...and with only a small tac it's easy to un-solder and realign if necessary.

If I'm following you...you're suggesting to basically continue working from the back toward the front - then slide the floor plate from underneath when after the exterior parts have been attached...yes?

In theory I think that it would work. It's still going to be tricky getting/making sure that you are square.

That's the thought. I"m thinking if the attachment points on the rear compartment are true and correct then I can build from there forward.


How about working a sub from the front back...ie. attach the hood sidewalls to the front radiator/louver piece to makes sure that the front end is square - then attach that to the cab floor assembly?

I'll pull out my instructions again to have them handy as you move through this...

Luck,
Rick

That sounds good also, I was planing on getting the louver constructed next anyway because i'm going to need it to make sure the front end is square.

Unsoldering? Shoot that's the easy part, I'm doing that left and right even without trying!

I would like to leave the rear of the cab open so I can paint it proper, I still can't figure out how you guys paint a nearly completed build. Guess I've been building Aircraft to long where we paint as we go.

Thanks for the input, I think that's the route I'm going, front to back that is.

[greybeard]

I have a sheet of .060 stainless steel from an old piece of office furniture. I use that as a base, and then I use square and rectangular magnets to hold parts in place on it during assembly. This generally works to keep parts aligned.

Cheers
Scott Fraser

[Moon Puppy]

Thanks Scott, We were talking about this over at Swanny's forum. One of the guys there is about to start this build. I doubt I will invest in that setup just yet because I'm near the completion of major structure of the build.

One nice thing about working with all this brass is if you really screw up just heat it up and try again.

[Moon Puppy]

Nailed it Rick! built up the radiator frame and attached it to the side wall. squared up with the other and built back from there. Still had to crank it around a bit, good bit of solder is used and it's posed like a loaded spring. Using the Mark 1 eyeball it looks good. Thanks for the suggestion Rick.

[RickLawler]

Good Deal!!!

I'm guessing that you've got something like this?

http://i88.photobucket.com/albums/k200/RickLawler/M2%20Halftrack/copy3.jpg

You're on your way now!

Rick

[serpico]

Good Deal!!!

I'm guessing that you've got something like this?

http://i88.photobucket.com/albums/k200/RickLawler/M2%20Halftrack/copy3.jpg

You're on your way now!

Rick

Good soldering there Rick....btw, won't that lump of solder in the engine bay be seen? Just my dumb question for the day....:rolleyes:

Or maybe the firewall hides that?

Interesting way to build a model, looks more like the real deal...:thumb:

[Moon Puppy]

Dang images are blocked at work...have to check it out later.

[RickLawler]

Good soldering there Rick....btw, won't that lump of solder in the engine bay be seen? Just my dumb question for the day....

Or maybe the firewall hides that?


That lovely bit of soldering was one of the very first soldering I attempted when I did my project (first soldering ever for that matter). I had already decided to not show the engine...so yes, this is what would be behind the firewall between the engine. Hard to see even with the bonnet open, but a rough early soldering attempt none-the-less.

You see, I followed the instruction sequence which has you begin with the crew cab and front end assembly - our friend Moon Pup thought better and began with the fighting compartment (where the assembly is more straight forward). Either way, however, you must deal with the crew cab which is a tricky bit of bending/soldering.

Ok MP, back to the show.

Rick

[Moon Puppy]

I have to say the Firewall/floorboard/Sidewalls have been the most difficult part of the build so far. I keep looking at the Machine Gun Mount and wondering how the world I"m going to get that bend. I'll slap a picture up this evening of where we're at but I think i'll lay low for a couple of days, think the reason I couldn't get the cab frame right is because I was banging at it to hard for to long.

[Moon Puppy]

Here's tonight's pictures. Quick dry fit.
Will construct the hood next to see how bad out of alignment everything is. OH NO HINGES AGAIN!!!

http://www.brittsbytes.com/halftrack/m2a1111100.jpg
http://www.brittsbytes.com/halftrack/m2a1111101.jpg
http://www.brittsbytes.com/halftrack/m2a1111102.jpg

[Flak]

Wonderful job :thumb:

[canjuaan]

Engine looks spectacular. Any close-ups?

Johannes

[Moon Puppy]

Check back on page 1, any closer and the bad stuff shows up! If any of the colors are incorrect please let me know. I make no claim of being an armor expert and will need lots of help when the painting starts.

[Driver]

You are doing an incredible job with all that brass Puppy. Although one has to admit that those alignment issues are the scariest part of it.

Ruben

[gibsonfndr]

I find this build amazing !

[RickLawler]

So MP, looking at the last pic., the front and rear half seem to be sitting on the chassis fine & level...yes? It looks like the center "step" will mate with the rear bed just fine - and your only fit issues are the fender wells?

If that's the case you are doing just fine. Those fender well pieces (it looks like you've not installed/lost the far side) can be reproduced from plastic stock - or new brass sheet if you'd prefer - in order for them to reach. No biggie!

Have you had a chance to dry fit the hood? That will let you know if the front end is true. Also, you're about to start with a lot of fiddly stuff on the cab area - running boards and battery box to be specific. These have the potential to cause you to pull your hair out as well. The tolorances are tight, and the work is close.

Go get 'em tiger!

Rick

[Moon Puppy]

Not real level but it's even. At this point I think I can make it look good.

Yes I removed one side, will remove the other before mating. I think it is a mistake to attempt to install the fender well at the point the instructions call for. They should, and will be reinstalled when the front and rear are mated.

I have not done anything with the hood yet. I"m looking at making that operational so i'm going to be real careful with the hinges. I notice on your latest build (the 222?) that you have some beautifully working hinges on some storage boxes. Have you found any trick to help with it or is it the fact that you're just awesome....;)

[RickLawler]

Hi MP, here's just a quick show-n-tell...

First, lets build a little box for demonstation...place a small chip of solder in the pre-fluxed corners, then add heat....

http://i88.photobucket.com/albums/k200/RickLawler/Sd%20Kfz%20222/61-1.jpg

So for these type hinges you have these little fingers that go on both the box and the lid....

http://i88.photobucket.com/albums/k200/RickLawler/Sd%20Kfz%20222/71-1.jpg

place flux on the edge of the box where you are going to place the hinge/fingers....

http://i88.photobucket.com/albums/k200/RickLawler/Sd%20Kfz%20222/81.jpg

using another small solder chip, melt along flux line....

http://i88.photobucket.com/albums/k200/RickLawler/Sd%20Kfz%20222/91.jpg

add the fingers over the tinned area, reheat...I'll need to realign the fingers before proceeding....

http://i88.photobucket.com/albums/k200/RickLawler/Sd%20Kfz%20222/101.jpg

The exact same process is done to the lid. Once attached weave the fingers together, place wire and then bend the fingers over/around the wire to form hinge.

http://i88.photobucket.com/albums/k200/RickLawler/Sd%20Kfz%20222/11-11.jpg

Then, if your lucky they will remain workable....

http://i88.photobucket.com/albums/k200/RickLawler/Sd%20Kfz%20222/08ps.jpg

http://i88.photobucket.com/albums/k200/RickLawler/Sd%20Kfz%20222/09ps.jpg

It's mostly a matter of not overdoing the solder....and patience.

Hope it helps.

Rick

[Moon Puppy]

Sweet! So simple answer is, to keep the solder out of the hinge, keep the hinge out of the solder.

BTW, you've got to get hooked up with some solder paste!

http://www.stanleysupplyservices.com/brand-leaf.aspx?brandid=455&categoryID=127

Found out from my Bud Old Dog at Swanny's (who has some certificaton from Nasa in soldering) Well I'll just quote him:
Kester R560 is what I sent you, as you can see it's rather pricey, $208 for 600 grams. The R562 should work the same for our purposes. The extra money buys you longer tack times, which is not of any import to us. The R276 that is listed for $14.90 might be worth a try, you only get 35 grams for that price and you will need to use a solvent to clean off the residue. The 600 gram containers should last a life time for what you are doing or maybe you could divide it up and split the cost. Six 100 gram lots would only be about $10 a piece.

I'm using one of these Ultrasonic Jewelry cleaners (failed Christmas present for My Bride) to clean up the PE after soldering. Placed the whole rear section and ran it for 5 minutes.

I had planned on taking a couple of days off from modeling to do the honeydoos around the house but dang man...you got me rethinking priorities.

[Moon Puppy]

Here's a little update, sure it looks like I only put on two parts not counting the hinges. Well long story short I pulled the firewall/floorboard off and started over again starting a the radiator frame and working back. I also installed the hood and windshield frame to help align everything else. Problem is there is nothing on these parts to line up the others. some of the joints are edge to edge at a angle with nothing to build on. The only squared up part to build from is this radiator frame.


http://www.brittsbytes.com/halftrack/m2a1111400.jpg
So moving forward I got the hinges lined up and ready for the hood. The leading lower edge on the windscreen will be taken care of, I'll run a bead all the way across and make sure it's secure.

BTW, notice the new flame thrower? Bernzomatic at Lowes, $14.00 and 6 tips, much easier to work with.

http://www.brittsbytes.com/halftrack/m2a1111401.jpg
Right there the floorboard and firewall are just clamped in, will hit it with the flame tomorrow when I'm sure it's right.

http://www.brittsbytes.com/halftrack/m2a1111402.jpg
OK Bad picture but the point was I used a divider to check each side of the hood alignment on the radiator frame, it doesn't get any more squared up than this.

http://www.brittsbytes.com/halftrack/m2a1111403.jpg
Notice the warp in the windscreen frame top? Yeah, so did I after looking at the picture. It's already taken care of.

http://www.brittsbytes.com/halftrack/m2a1111404.jpg
A shot with the hood in place, I haven't put the side doors on yet, will do soon.
http://www.brittsbytes.com/halftrack/m2a1111405.jpg
Yeah I see the air also. The floorboard is not secured in yet. I'm going to do some more dry fitting before I hit it again with the heat. I hope this time will be the last time for the cab. And don't worry, that CA in the back ground hasn't been used in weeks.

Thanks for your help and looking.

[f1matt]

I admire you determination to get it right. It'll be worth it in the end. :thumb:

[Moon Puppy]

I shouldn't tell this, you see that nonskid, I noticed it being askew so I thought I'd hit it with some heat and well. Long story short, ended up rebuilding the firewall floorboard again...I got to get to a point where enough is enough. Thanks for reading this insanity!

[Moon Puppy]

It's become obvious to me that two separate teams designed the rear compartment and the cab. Rick I think you warned me about this Battery Box, I would love for someone at Lions Roar to explain to me why they needed 6 separated parts, I"m not an engineer but I could have designed this with 3 separate parts at the most.

No pictures tonight but it looks pretty much the same as the other pictures accept more squared up and with the floor board in place. I cut off the kit fenders and getting ready to start with the running boards and battery box. Once the plastic goes on the soldering ends, actually I hate that because I really enjoy working with solder and brass. Will post pictures when I have something.

[Moon Puppy]

That's using the ol' noggin' Dollar!

I've been bangin' my noggin a while today but I can call it progress.

http://www.brittsbytes.com/halftrack/m2a1112300.jpg
Driver side running board went in with little problems.
http://www.brittsbytes.com/halftrack/m2a1112301.jpg
Passenger side running board and battery box, I can't say the same. It looks sloppy because it is sloppy the way Lions Roar designed this assembly would allow for some super detail in side but assembly is a PITA.
http://www.brittsbytes.com/halftrack/m2a1112302.jpg
Here's a dry fit, that firewall sure is bland, got to get some plumbing and wires in there. I see where Eduard has a detail set that includes stuff on the firewall. How nuts am I, I'm thinking of getting more PE!!!

http://www.brittsbytes.com/halftrack/m2a1112303.jpg
Things are still hanging a bit loose right now because I want that flexibility there when I go to mate the rear to the cab. Once that starts I'll secure the driver side floorboard, the other side is secured because the battery box. I think I'm going to slide a battery up in that slot and run some wiring to the firewall. Plenty of room in there.
http://www.brittsbytes.com/halftrack/m2a1112304.jpg
Underside view looking at the braces for the battery box and running boards.
http://www.brittsbytes.com/halftrack/m2a1112305.jpg
Another view.

Now is the time to sit back and look at the instructions and see if there is any other major soldering to do. It's a bit frustrating to apply some heat to a part, back off and see another part had slipped out of place because it picked up the heat as well. Who talked me into soldering anyways???

Thanks for looking, see ya at the funny farm!! :D

[canjuaan]

It's very impressing to see how such a complex piece is soldered. I'm sure this is going to turn out nicely.

Johannes

[Flak]

Looks great...

[iambrb]

[QUOTE=Moon Puppy;71515]I would love for someone at Lions Roar to explain to me why they needed 6 separated parts, I"m not an engineer but I could have designed this with 3 separate parts at the most.

QUOTE]


Well, I am not an engineer, but I do have a little "redneck Cad-Cam" expereince, and I am willing to be dollars to doughnuts it was that way because the cad-cam guy that laid all tha out for the laser to cut felt this wa the easiest way.

Either that, or they are masochists..................

[camokid]

Well, I am not an engineer, but I do have a little "redneck Cad-Cam" expereince, and I am willing to be dollars to doughnuts it was that way because the cad-cam guy that laid all tha out for the laser to cut felt this wa the easiest way.

This very well could be the reason but I have to wonder if it's more of an accuracy issue. The Batt. box in reality was several flat pieces bolted together, if Lion Roar had simply made parts with seams for bending, those corners wouldn't show the accurate gaps/joins of the bolted parts and given the impression of a continuous part

( if that wasn't too confusing :o )

Either that, or they are masochists..................

Couldn't one say that about the people who purchase this kit and assemble it as well ?

J/K

Sorry Moonpuppy and Rick.

:D

[RickLawler]

Long time, Ken. You should be flying wing for MP! Ken is THE OD guy!!!

later,

Rick

[Moon Puppy]

This very well could be the reason but I have to wonder if it's more of an accuracy issue. The Batt. box in reality was several flat pieces bolted together, if Lion Roar had simply made parts with seams for bending, those corners wouldn't show the accurate gaps/joins of the bolted parts and given the impression of a continuous part

( if that wasn't too confusing :o )

Well it defiantly has some gaps, I think Lions Roar could have done a better job in showing how these panels are suppose to over lap or connect. But then again if I were using CE on this I would have had a bit more time to work with it to get the kinks out.


Couldn't one say that about the people who purchase this kit and assemble it as well ?

J/K

Sorry Moonpuppy and Rick.

:D

Being crazy is cheaper than drinking....or buying guns.:D

[Moon Puppy]

OK so I got a question for you experts, Fire Extinguisher inside the cab, what color is the bottle? I do not believe they were red back then were they?

[camokid]

Long time, Ken. You should be flying wing for MP! Ken is THE OD guy!!!

later,

Rick

Hi Rick, yeah long time is right. Hope you had plenty to eat yesterday !

Oh, BTW I don't know about 'THE OD guy', I know almost zilch about Shermies, Stuarts, etc. etc. :thumb:

OK so I got a question for you experts, Fire Extinguisher inside the cab, what color is the bottle? I do not believe they were red back then were they?

AFAIK early half tracks used the small, brass, pump style extinguishers which would have been (obviously) brass in color. However the Dragon kit has the later, pistol grip style CO2 FE. I'd go with a shade of green for that personally but you never know...

Go with red if you want a bit of colorful flavor but I don't know if that's accurate or not, someone else may know better than I.

:D

[Moon Puppy]

Thanks Ken, Green it is. I don't want the accuracy gods nailing me over this.

Well need a little more input. I can not get those inside hinges to work out right where they actually work and also line up correctly. So here's what i'm debating now. I either have to pose the hood open or closed. I think what i'll do is go ahead and detail the engine and firewall, see how that turns out then decide on open or closed hood.

[Moon Puppy]

Well looking back on some build logs I see I"m about to hit the two month mark. And this is all I have? I'm glad I'm not keeping hourly log, then that would depress me!

Anywho, here's what I've done since last pictures. These racks are insane, or I am. I lost count how many parts are on each rack but by god their there!

http://www.brittsbytes.com/halftrack/m2a1120100.jpg
Finally got this one mounted in place. You may notice some CA on this part, That's right, I've used CA! these parts are so close together there is no way I can add a part and expect a soldered joint to stay in place or get a heat sink on it to secure. So there, i've used some CA!
http://www.brittsbytes.com/halftrack/m2a1120101.jpg
Not sure if this is the right angle, there's so little reference marks to aid alignment it's hard to tell where these parts are suppose to go.
http://www.brittsbytes.com/halftrack/m2a1120102.jpg

http://www.brittsbytes.com/halftrack/m2a1120103.jpg
This is the right side, much uglier, one of the slats got over heated and deformed but you know what, I'm going with it with no remorse. I call it battle damage or a field repair. Oddly, this rack, as ugly as it is, is still fully movable. I can stow it or have it extended. Pretty sure i'll have it extended but thought it would be neat to have it work just to say it does.

http://www.brittsbytes.com/halftrack/m2a1120104.jpg
And here's the Walmart Special starter pack of oils. All you guys doing these dot filters have me wanting to give try, I may even pick up an previous build to attempt it on.

Thanks for looking! and please feel free to comment good bad and ugly, I can take it.

[RickLawler]

Are you reall talking about paints? You must be getting close! 2 month's isn't all that much, MP.

Rock on,

Rick

[Moon Puppy]

Not so close to painting yet. still coming back and installing small detail stuff that I bypassed earlier. Need to work on the firewall and hood, think I'll get a new tip for the soldering iron and attempt those hinges with it, sort of a more directed heat source instead of the minitorch. for all these tie downs I'm pretty sure I'll use CA for them because heating up one after another will cause the previously installed stuff to move around. Still have the doors to do as well as windscreen armor plate, not to mention the gun mount.

but I do want to play around with this dot filter. I have a FW190 I build not long ago that i"m thinking of applying the dot filter to just get practice in. someone at Swanny's said something about painting figures with oils. Is there a "painting figures with oils for dummies" around somewhere?

[RickLawler]

for all these tie downs I'm pretty sure I'll use CA for them because heating up one after another will cause the previously installed stuff to move around.

I began using CA, but found that that was a pain as well because there are so many and the size is sooooo small. I switched to using Future and it worked great. A light wash first, let it get tacky, then stick on the tie down, then follow with another light brush just to seal it up. Once you have your primer coat on (I'd recommend MR. Surfacer) they will stay put forever.

Rick

[Moon Puppy]

Future....as an adhesive? You're talking about the floor polish right? :eek:

[RickLawler]

Yep, multi-functional floor polish.

[Moon Puppy]

HA! got to give that a try. I suppose that would need to be done last thing before primer. Of course allowing the future to cure first. BTW, totally onboard with MrSurfacer, I have 500,100 and 1200.

[iambrb]

Being crazy is cheaper than drinking....or buying guns.:D


MP, I know that remark was meant for me!

Very reason I have picked this hobby back up! My "Cheap" hunting rifle represents a handy 1K, and I have another rare Steyr M-S & Savage M1920, and they each represent 1K & 2K respectively, not to mention the obvious costs of insurrance and ammo, etc. Kinda makes the $$$ spent on kits seem small!


Gang, I am new here and equally new (well, call it a 20+ year gap) to this hobby, and MP has what could be seens as the ultimate "man cave" for this kind of thing, a small HOUSE behind his own house! Sure beats storing it in a few toolboxes and building on te kitchen table like some of us poor slobs!

[Moon Puppy]

Just imagine how much plastic someone can get for the price of one of those guns you hardly ever get to shoot...

I likes my man cave also, I debated on what hobby to go with when I cleaned it out, it was either this or rebuilding some redneck hotrod camaro or mustang...I went the cheap way out.

[Moon Puppy]

Just wanted to drop a note, I haven't made much progress lately. Been down with the flu and other stuff going on. I've started work on the doors, having trouble working with the hinges on the doors. all the detail is cooperative just the stinkin' hinges, seems to be a common thing here. Not sure why.

Going to have about 10 days off over the holidays so should have some good bench time in and get some photos. Hope everyone else is making good progress lately.

[Moon Puppy]

Well we have doors. the one on the right is completely soldered, finally learned to get all the pieces in place with solder, clipped in place or how ever I can secure the part in place and then apply heat with the torch. Worked well for the most part but found that if there may be to much solder the part may float when the solder boils and pillows.
http://www.brittsbytes.com/halftrack/m2a1122001.jpg
The right door looks much better because I didn't waste time attempting to make the side armor hinge work.
http://www.brittsbytes.com/halftrack/m2a1122002.jpg
And right now it works...but most likely will display it lowered. I will clean up the doors before putting them in place.
http://www.brittsbytes.com/halftrack/m2a1122003.jpg

Here's the rest of the cargo racks on the back, installed ready to go.
http://www.brittsbytes.com/halftrack/m2a1122004.jpg

Dry fit of cab and fighting compartment with doors dryfit. Still need to work on that firewall
http://www.brittsbytes.com/halftrack/m2a1122005.jpg

http://www.brittsbytes.com/halftrack/m2a1122006.jpg

And here's something to address the flat tires DML sent with the kit.
http://www.brittsbytes.com/halftrack/m2a1122007.jpg

Thanks for looking and any comments, complaints or jokes are always appreciate.

[camokid]

This sure is coming along nicely, I can't imagine for the life of me understand how you guys do this. I can't solder a coupling into half inch copper pipe without the elbow coming loose. :D

One thing that confused me about this Lion Roar set is the two map cases, one for each door. The only vehicle I have ever seen the map case mounted on the drivers door was the M3 GMC but I'm not saying it never happened, it's just that I've never seen it in any photo before.

I have a few sets of those tires/rims as well, they are pretty sweet. I did alter mine a bit because of the shape of the rim but I'm too picky for my own good sometimes. :o

One question though, what is the time frame you are thinking of for your finish. The Directional tread chevrons were pretty early, even on the combat rims. I would recommend staying pre D-Day with those but anything is possible right ? ;)

Again I have to say, amazing talent and skill in the assembly of these parts, I have enough trouble finishing my plastic kits in a timely manner.

Keep it up !

[Moon Puppy]

This sure is coming along nicely, I can't imagine for the life of me understand how you guys do this. I can't solder a coupling into half inch copper pipe without the elbow coming loose. :D

See there's the problem, that's to much cooper to work with.


One thing that confused me about this Lion Roar set is the two map cases, one for each door. The only vehicle I have ever seen the map case mounted on the drivers door was the M3 GMC but I'm not saying it never happened, it's just that I've never seen it in any photo before.

I saw that as looking a bit odd myself. I didn't know what they were, thought they were the storage for the service records but they are generally stowed under the hood, is that right? Seeing how I solder the one on the right side, I think it's going to stay. If I start desoldering on that part it would really ruin my day..:eek: I'll run the questionable stuff by you next time. :thumb:



One question though, what is the time frame you are thinking of for your finish. The Directional tread chevrons were pretty early, even on the combat rims. I would recommend staying pre D-Day with those but anything is possible right ? ;)

Well actually I was planing (not planning to well) on it being something from the breakout period just after D-Day, I did not do the research on the tires, still learning about how much research is really needed to do this right. But hey, I'm easy, So you'd say N. Africa or Italy would be OK? Were they widely used? I don't suppose you have any photos you'd like to share?



Again I have to say, amazing talent and skill in the assembly of these parts, I have enough trouble finishing my plastic kits in a timely manner.

Keep it up !

Thanks for the comments and help.

Working with the brass is fun, but I'm looking forward to getting back into plastic...I got a 1:32 P51 with Bid Ed set in the wings.

[solorow]

Great work
But, maybe sand it after solding will make it more beautiful.

[Flak]

Great work always...

[Moon Puppy]

Sanding is on the todo list, thanks for the comments folks.

[Moon Puppy]

Well I placed an order, Gator Glue (http://www.gatorsmask.com/gatorglueorder.html) is on the way, got the applicator and a U.S. insignia mask, just to round the order out a bit, that will be for a future project. Seeing how CA is just to brittle, 5min Epoxy does not set quick enough, figured for $5.00 what can I lose? A lot of the work left to do integrates plastic to PE so heat is out of the question. MAybe the scars on my fingers will heal over now...

[RickLawler]

Gator Glue might just do the trick with those tie downs.

Rick

[Moon Puppy]

I'm still going to try that Future trick, I gotta see that work.

[camokid]

Well actually I was planing (not planning to well) on it being something from the breakout period just after D-Day, I did not do the research on the tires, still learning about how much research is really needed to do this right. But hey, I'm easy, So you'd say N. Africa or Italy would be OK? Were they widely used? I don't suppose you have any photos you'd like to share?

If I had pix of M2A1's with chevrons, I'd happily share.

The trickiest part about the directional chevron tires on an M2A1 is the dates. Without my references right here in front of me I'm going to have to try and use my memory which is sketchy at best. IIRC the first pilot version of the M2A1 was tested at Aberdeen in the summer of '42, the second pilot in maybe Jan of '43 and then I believe they were accepted and production immediately followed.

So I guess the question is, while it appears they were produced too late for operation Torch ( widespread use of the directional chevron tires on M2's M3's etc. can be seen in North Africa pictures, Allied photos and German photos of captured vehicles ) they were available for Operation Husky, but was the tire still as commonly used by then ?

My pedantic side says the new production M2A1's would have the non directional tires mounted, my open minded, realist side says it is very possible to have some M2A1's with those tires mounted. Obviously pictures of this would put an end to the question but I have yet to see any.

Perhaps if you mount the unditching roller front end, implying an M2 rebuilt as an M2A1 it may help sell the idea, as the M2 may already be wearing the older tires at the time of refurbishing ?

Thanks for the comments and help.

No worries, any chance to talk about these vehicles is a pleasure. Before these Dragon kits, I had to spend my all my time in the vehicle restoration forums around the 'net.

:o

[Moon Puppy]

Well I spent the evening looking over what I have, not much but a couple books. I find all sorts of photos of the M2 and various gun carriages with the directional treads but none of the M2A1.

Found that Patton's M3 Command Vehicle he used at the Desert Training Center had the Directional treads. Also see where lots of the vehicles during the prewar time have the directional treads but no M2A1s.

What I'm confused about is looking at "U.S. Halftracks in Combat" of the "Armor at War Series" I am not seeing any M2A1s, in the configuration i'm building, till later in the war. I find photos relatively late in the war. I had read that M2A1s were build with the wrench in about equal numbers as the roller bumper early in the war. But again, I don't see those early photos of the M2A1 with wrench till late. Can you clarify this for me?

You got me thinking of going back to the original kit tires (or biting the bullet again) and doing plan A, Post D-Day timing.

[camokid]

I find all sorts of photos of the M2 and various gun carriages with the directional treads but none of the M2A1. Also see where lots of the vehicles during the prewar time have the directional treads but no M2A1s.

Yup, :thumb: nail on the head and all that.

The directional chevron tire was first mounted on the automotive style rim, (Trakz makes a set) and was later mounted on the combat rim. Looking through many pictures of early vehicles you can see them mounted in both directions, correct and backwards, perhaps this was one of the reasons for making the non directional tread ?

What I'm confused about is looking at "U.S. Halftracks in Combat" of the "Armor at War Series" I am not seeing any M2A1s, in the configuration i'm building, till later in the war.

What configuration exactly do you mean ? Mine racks, jerry cans and winch bumper ? If so, then yes, those are all later additions.

I had read that M2A1s were build with the wrench in about equal numbers as the roller bumper early in the war. But again, I don't see those early photos of the M2A1 with wrench till late. Can you clarify this for me?

I don't think any M2A1's were built from the factory with the unditching roller, any that you see in photos are most likely refurbished M2's. Having said that, those two variations of the M2A1 had similar 'production' numbers (see below)

One of the most obvious tell-tale signs in photos, would be all the screws along the side armor where the skate rail was originally mounted, placed back into the holes after removing the skate rail.

A total of 11,415 M2's were built with 1,266 of them converted into M2A1's.
Only 1,643 M2A1's were built, plus the 1,266 M2's above.
The M2 half track was far more common than the A1

Now to correct my statement in the previous post, (I told you my memory was sketchy :o ) I did some quick browsing through some of my refs, including the official war dept. T M9-710. Now while my mention of the second pilot version tests in January of '43 was correct, the actual date of acceptance of the M2A1 may have been as late as October of '43, nine months is a long time.

You got me thinking of going back to the original kit tires (or biting the bullet again) and doing plan A, Post D-Day timing.

Obviously the kit tires would be the easiest/cheapest way around this but as you most likely know Hussar, Trakz and Tankworkshop all do a couple of versions. TankWorkshop's even have Firestone embossed on them and I think they're fairly cheap as well. Master Productions make a set but IIRC, they are better suited for IDF or something post war...

Of course after you go through all of this aggravation, a photo of an M2A1 with directional chevrons will appear, you know this right ? :D Murphy's law and all.

[Moon Puppy]

What configuration exactly do you mean ? Mine racks, jerry cans and winch bumper ? If so, then yes, those are all later additions.

Unless I find the one photo of a subject I would like to do, and it is absent one of these items, the answer is yes. I am doing one with wrench, racks, jerry cans and the folding cargo racks on the back. Again unless I find a photo that strikes my fancy that is some how different, this is what i'm going with, just because all that stuff is in the kit. So based on what you are saying and what i'm seeing in photo reverences, this configuration would be late war. Gotcha.:thumb:

One of the most obvious tell-tale signs in photos, would be all the screws along the side armor where the skate rail was originally mounted, placed back into the holes after removing the skate rail.


That explains the need for two sets of side armor in the Lions Roar kit, I didn't look close enough to see the differences, I see it now. Maybe I need to be more observant.


Obviously the kit tires would be the easiest/cheapest way around this but as you most likely know Hussar, Trakz and Tankworkshop all do a couple of versions. TankWorkshop's even have Firestone embossed on them and I think they're fairly cheap as well. Master Productions make a set but IIRC, they are better suited for IDF or something post war...

gotcha, i'm placing another order with Squadron at the first of the year and I think I'll get the non directional set then. If you're interested i'll gladly send these directionals to you in exchange for the great info you've shared with me here. Seems the build you are doing would be more suited for these tires than anything I'll be doing in the future. Maybe you can make use of them in the future. Let me know, it will be my pleasure.



Of course after you go through all of this aggravation, a photo of an M2A1 with directional chevrons will appear, you know this right ? :D Murphy's law and all.

Know Murphy well, If you see him before I do, tell him I said Hia! :D

[camokid]

gotcha, i'm placing another order with Squadron at the first of the year and I think I'll get the non directional set then. If you're interested i'll gladly send these directionals to you in exchange for the great info you've shared with me here. Seems the build you are doing would be more suited for these tires than anything I'll be doing in the future. Maybe you can make use of them in the future. Let me know, it will be my pleasure.

Wow,

what an incredible offer, one that I feel almost ashamed of considering turning down. :o It's just that I already have a few of these Trakz sets and feel a bit selfish and greedy even thinking about taking them from you for free.

Any information I have given you has been all my pleasure and is in my opinion, the best aspect of the internet. I can't tell you how refreshing it is to exchange information and ideas about your build with you, without making you angry, or hurting your feelings. In the past, on other sites I have been accused of going 'over the top' with my comments, :confused: and of being a nit picker and/or rivet counter even though I always try to critique the model part and not the modeler. One thing that brought me to Planet Armor in the first place was the willingness of the members to share information and opinions with one another like adults, without having a whinge/temper tantrum.

I don't want to insult you by not taking you up on your offer but is there something I could do for you ? A trade of some sort perhaps ? Do you have any intention of mounting this on a base at all ? I'm a carpenter by trade and have made a few Mahogany bases for people in the past, perhaps this is something you may want to think about ?

Feel free to let me know either way, here or via PM. And keep up the great work.

:thumb:

[Moon Puppy]

Ken, the sharing of stuff between modelers is what makes this hobby great. I've had people send me stuff and I've sent/given stuff to others. Sort of a "pay it forward" idea. If you want the wheels let me know, if not that's fine also, I'll not be offended in the slightest. I just hate to think of them sitting in my shop while I have no intention of using them anytime in the near future. Bought 3 aircraft today on a LHS run, another Halftrack will be a long ways off for me. As far as I'm concerned I would be the one completing the trade because the value I place on the information you've shared with me so far (notice I said "so far", I intend to keep taping your knowledge). But seriously, if you don't need the wheels or don't want them that's kewl, I'm not the type who'll get offended over something like this. Life is too short :thumb:

We're mated up Mates!

I spent so much time worrying about the alignment of the cab I think I got obsessed. I'm still of the school that it should be built from the rear forward. attaching the side walls to the rear and once it's all framed out add the floor and firewall from the bottom. There was still some fit issues but the trusty Dremel solved those problems...

http://www.brittsbytes.com/halftrack/m2a1122801.jpg

http://www.brittsbytes.com/halftrack/m2a1122802.jpg
Started working on the replacement parts for the bumper and opted out of using them. Same issue of vauge reference to how the parts are suppose to line up and seeing now the front grill mates directly to the frame of the bumper I did not want to compound the alignment issues. As it stands right now alignment is spot on up front but slight pressure will need to be applied down on the nose as it does not sit on the frame on it's own.
http://www.brittsbytes.com/halftrack/m2a1122803.jpg

http://www.brittsbytes.com/halftrack/m2a1122804.jpg

http://www.brittsbytes.com/halftrack/m2a1122805.jpg

http://www.brittsbytes.com/halftrack/m2a1122806.jpg

Hope you like it, off work all this week, not going back till the Jan 5th so expect more updates.

Thanks for looking.

[Moon Puppy]

Well did some test fitting last night. Long story short, The hood is going to be set open to hide some fit issues so that means the firewall has to be detailed. I'm going to give a shot at scratch building the stuff under the hood. Doors may be posed open also...I'm not telling why... ;)

[Moon Puppy]

In spite of real live stuff going on lately I've been able to log some quality time. All these issues with alignment of the cab has faded away now. installing the top rail over the windscreen and forcing it to line up seems to have worked to square off the rest of the cab. Even the doors look to line up correctly now, well one door.

http://www.brittsbytes.com/halftrack/m2a1010101.jpg

http://www.brittsbytes.com/halftrack/m2a1010102.jpg
A couple of overhead shots. Playing around with making a better picture, just some drawing stock background so you's guys don't see all the crap I leave sitting on the work bench.

http://www.brittsbytes.com/halftrack/m2a1010103.jpg
This shot we see the joint between the cab floor and rear compartment. Basically all I did was run a seam of solder paste between the two and apply heat while holding the to assemblies flush and squared. I suppose this did more for forcing the alignment back around than anything.


http://www.brittsbytes.com/halftrack/m2a1010104.jpg
Here we see the back side of the radiator louvers. The hinge points are each soldered on the louvers. Since there was so much solder work on the louvers I used 5 minute epoxy to secure the frame work into the front grill. I finally got something to work right on this, the louvers work.

http://www.brittsbytes.com/halftrack/m2a1010105.jpg
Open
http://www.brittsbytes.com/halftrack/m2a1010106.jpg
Closed..neat huh?

http://www.brittsbytes.com/halftrack/m2a1010107.jpg
And here we can see the upper frame over the windscreen frame. this was another assembly that went long on squaring up the cab. The windscreen armor plate is done but I think i'll hold off installing it till I get some painting done and install the windshield itself, I got fat fingers...

I suppose I got obsessed with making the cab look square before the rest of the stuff was installed. But all said and done it's coming along nicely now.

Started working on the Gun Ring before eyes went crossed, thinking this should be the last sub assembly to do. Should be able to squeeze in another marathon day tomorrow, who knows, maybe some primer this weekend!

[Coops]

But all said and done it's coming along nicely now.

So true, looks great and I can't wait to see more [been look at this every time I come here :)].

[Moon Puppy]

OK Guys, need some help. Looking for photos of the Gun Mount ring. Found that it's the M49 Ring Mount Assembly, or at least I think that's what it is. Also need photos of the cradle that the M2 .50 machine gun would have been mounted on. I've done the google search but have yet to find really close up photos and my walk around and other books just don't have a good shot. Help!

[James Tainton]

here's one from a build by Brian Balkwell over at Military Modeller.
http://i52.photobucket.com/albums/g12/camokid/IMG_3992.jpg

from this page
http://www.militarymodelling.com/forum/forummessages.asp?UTN=4318&URN=17&dt=4&srchdte=0&cp=4&v=1&sp=

in this blog
http://www.militarymodelling.com/forum/forummessages.asp?UTN=4318&URN=17&dt=4&srchdte=0&cp=1&v=1&sp=

[Moon Puppy]

Thanks James, but I'm building the A1 varient with the gun ring, that is the skate rail that you would find on the M2-3 and so on.
Here s what I'm looking for (http://www.sixtharmygroup.com/portal/viewtopic.php?p=109148&sid=08b0197ff0a90cbb052d378cf94558f8) although this is a resin cast master. But if this is accurate then it covers my question about the T&E
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v511/Armorpax/WSC/Cimg6402.jpg Now how the ring mounts to the housing is what I'd like to see.

I'll get some java in me and see what can be found.

[camokid]

here's one from a build by Brian Balkwell over at Military Modeller.

*Right clicks photo.... clicks properties,


http://i52.photo bucket.com/albums/g12/camokid/IMG_39 92.jpg

I knew that photo looked familiar :D I think you can find pictures of that vehicle here as well, in Rick Lawler's M2A1 and Mike Nickolson's M4A1 vbench. They were supplied to me by a great guy, John Charvat and can also be seen in the halftrack issue of Boresight.

Now how the ring mounts to the housing is what I'd like to see.

I might have what you're looking for, is it shots of the ring mounted to the armor that you need ? Close ups of the brackets and such ? I may be able to put a few pictures up if you can give me some time, I have to head out with the family for a few hours but I should be able to have something put together this evening ?

I know from my own experience with the DML kit that it isn't quite right in the box so you might have some extra work cut out for you, although I don't know what the Lionroar kit contains so they may have corrected these issues ?

[Moon Puppy]

Correct it's how it mounts to the armor that I have questions about now. Looks as though LR supplies ample hardware to mount the ring thoguht, once again, the poor reference in the instructions does not show how some of the brackets connect tot he armor and ring. I just want to see a bit more before I commit to solder/CA. I really wish I had some stock to recreate the ring out of metal but I don't have the tools or materials right now.

You said that Photo look familiar, is it yours?

[camokid]

Correct it's how it mounts to the armor that I have questions about now. Looks as though LR supplies ample hardware to mount the ring thoguht, once again, the poor reference in the instructions does not show how some of the brackets connect tot he armor and ring. I just want to see a bit more before I commit to solder/CA. I really wish I had some stock to recreate the ring out of metal but I don't have the tools or materials right now.

Ok,

I have a few reference pictures scanned that may help, if they don't just let me know, as the Toadman's photo CD I have might contain better pictures.

In the first picture you can see the M2E6 pilot version with the M49 mounted without the armor, and it allows us to see that the ring was mounted to the H/T frame and then the armor was later mounted to that.

http://i52.photobucket.com/albums/g12/camokid/A1pilot.jpg

.

This picture is an overhead shot of the ring, you can see the tops of the large brackets found in the earlier picture as well as the much smaller brackets that hold the armor in place, as well as the small square bracket for the (halved) tilt hoop.

You may even want to take note of the fifty cal travel lock found on the front right hand bracket, (2:00 position) I don't know if the parts for that are in the Lionroar kit or not.

http://i52.photobucket.com/albums/g12/camokid/overheadbrackets.jpg

.

This is another picture from an above angle but in this photo you can see the two small triangular stiffeners on the 2:00 position bracket and also the angled return of the 10:00 bracket, back to the frame above the windshield.

Note too, the lack of the fifty cal travel lock on this restored half track. I can't say I've ever seen the travel lock in use in wartime photo's but I thought I might bring attention to it just in case Lionroar have included it. :confused:

http://i52.photobucket.com/albums/g12/camokid/skateringabove.jpg

.

These last two pictures are examples of the bracket at the 6:30 position, which is attached to the support pole. The DML instructions call for the bracket to be mounted to the face of the armor but as you can see in these pictures, the bracket is below the armor and attached to the skate ring itself from underneath/behind the armor. Interestingly enough, DML supply two separate support poles on the same sprue, one with the bracket in a lower position which would be the more accurate choice of the two, even though the instructions call for the other.

One more thing to notice in these two pictures is the position of the pole on the bracket. A factory built M2A1 (first picture / actually an M3A1) would have the two inner jump seats positioned off to the left side and the pole in the left hand set of mounting holes. An M2 rebuilt as an M2A1 (second picture) would have the jump seats dead center, forcing the pole towards the outside of the vehicle making the use of the four right hand mounting holes.


http://i52.photobucket.com/albums/g12/camokid/factoryA1.jpg
http://i52.photobucket.com/albums/g12/camokid/rebuild.jpg

.

Keep this in mind when you mount your pole and your jump seats, below is a factory built M2A1, notice the far left position of the jump seats per my red lines.

http://i52.photobucket.com/albums/g12/camokid/tankogradshiftedseat.jpg


OK,

I think I've been helpful, although I may have only added to the confusion. :eek:

You said that Photo look familiar, is it yours?

If you look at the photobucket address you can see 'camokid', or if you click the link James posted, you can see me ugly mug in a Red Sox hat on that very post. :D The photo's aren't 'mine' per say, John Charvat supplied me with the photo CD of that M4A1... wish I could recall where he said it is located.

Any other questions, fire away !

[Moon Puppy]

Outstanding! Exactly what I needed. Thanks so much Ken. I can see that the T&E needs to be relocated on the kit supplied M2 HMG. Also I see what the clearance should be between the armor and the rail. I can see the attachment point for the overhead "Curtain Rod" (only word I can think of) over the drivers seat. I don't think there is a call for this, surely I got some PE left over to make that.

Where did you get these pictures from?

Your clock references are relative to the H/T correct? I've seen nothing in the instructions about the travel lock.

[camokid]

I can see the attachment point for the overhead "Curtain Rod" (only word I can think of) over the drivers seat. I don't think there is a call for this, surely I got some PE left over to make that.

Hey Curtain rod works, :thumb: but just in case, that is the 'halved tilt hoop' that I mentioned.

Where did you get these pictures from?

They are zoomed in croppings of pictures in a few books, Hunnicutt, Tankograd and Squadron IIRC.

Your clock references are relative to the H/T correct? I've seen nothing in the instructions about the travel lock.

Yes, as if you were standing in it looking over the hood.

As for the travel lock, I wonder if it was just a nuisance to the troops and they removed it, I've never been able to find it in wartime photos, or even on modern restored vehicles. Only on such production/testing type photos and the like.

:confused:

[Moon Puppy]

So if they removed the travel lock, what prevented the .50 from swinging all around when moving? I suspect they had some tilt and azimuth lock pins that could be put in place but would that secure it enough to keep it stationary?

I was wondering what "halved tilt hoop" was but didn't want to bug about to many questions, when i googled the term, it returned this thread!

[camokid]

So if they removed the travel lock, what prevented the .50 from swinging all around when moving? I suspect they had some tilt and azimuth lock pins that could be put in place but would that secure it enough to keep it stationary?

I don't know if it would secure the gun 100% but the dolly that rides the skate rail can be locked into a position with that large handle which can be best seen in the second picture, I also think you can tighten the pintel socket much like a vise. If you look in the fifth picture, at the bottom left of the socket you can see the small handle and the slit that opens/closes with a spin of the handle.


I was wondering what "halved tilt hoop" was but didn't want to bug about to many questions, when i googled the term, it returned this thread!

:D

Sorry, the word tilt is probably much more common to our European friends than it is in the states. Here's a definition I found that clears it up a bit.

A 'tilt' is any canvas or canopy used to cover an otherwise open boat, booth, or trailer of a lorry.

The word (in this context) has it's origins from the 15th century Old English word "teld", meaning 'tent' and the Danish "telt", which was small canopy or awning extended over the sternsheets of a boat.

The 'hoop' is just the metal rod/pole that supports it and it is 'halved' because of the MG puplit, although if you really look at the length of the remaining piece, it's more like third-ed isn't it ?

:p

[Moon Puppy]

Good stuff Ken, thanks, now lets see if I can put this info to practice.:eek:

[Moon Puppy]

I have a new best friend and his name is Kenny Loup, the guy who makes Gator Grip Glue (http://www.gatorsmask.com/gatorglueorder.html), but he doesn't know it yet....hope that doesn't sound weird (I think that's who makes it, that's who the return label address was).

My order came in today. Nice padded envelope and the bottle of Gator Grip was well wrapped in gauze for padding. Got down in the shop as soon as I could to test out this stuff. I folded over some PE to build an ammo box, used solder to secure it but the small mounting bracket PE would be a problem with solder. Especially when installing on the gun mount. Instructions state to dip a brush into the acrylic glue and apply to the part, then place it where you need it. I was able to drop one part directly on the ammo box, slight pressure to square it up. Again the instructions tell me to dip the brush in water, it will clean the brush and also allow you to come back and clean up any residue. Then you can take a dry brush and wick up the rest making a very clean joint.

I glued the receiving bracket on to the gun mount and used tweezers to clamp the part in place, again cleanup with wet brush/dry brush. I did not time how long it takes the glue to set but it is longer than CA without question but it allowed time to make minuet adjustments to make sure you have it just right. I turned my attention to the Gun Ring and sanded it down a bit then checked the mounts glued with Gator Grip. Maybe two minutes and the parts were able to support themselves when picked up by tweezers. I assembled the mount and ammo box and again, they held their bond. I'll do some more testing later to see how long it takes to cure.

So far I'm very impressed. Water cleanup and if it starts to dry out in the bottle, add a drop of water and stir...

I got a BIG bottle of CA, anyone wantta buy it cheap?

[Moon Puppy]

I may have been a bit optimistic about my initial evaluation of Gator Grip. Seems it would be more suited for applying cosmetic parts, certainly not structural components. When I inspected the parts today I was able to pry the pieces apart with little effort and a probe, much to easy. But I still think it will work well in smaller parts.

I doubt seriously that it will hold the door hinges in place.

[Markus]

Alright, I took my time to read the whole thread and I got to say that this is some unbelievable work...
I´m lacking the right english words right now, so either my english sucks or you left me speechless. I´d say the second :D.
Really, this is just great!

[Moon Puppy]

Awe come on now, makin' me blush. Don't worry Markus, there's plenty of stuff left for me to screw up. Thank you for the kind words. BTW, did you ever secure that wine bottle? :D

[Markus]

LOL! Not yet. I guess the guy on the halftrack needs some kick in the butt from his officer before he fixes it :D.