Dml T34/85

[Andrew Hall]

Dobry den, As I'm just about finished on my Grossdeutschland Pz.IV, I thought I'd make a T-34/85 using DML's 6266 Premium kit mitt bed spring armour.

http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y274/Andrewausfa/Dragon6266.jpg

I've also got the Aber etch set 35045 inbound and I might stretch to some Fruils. This one will be depicted as a vehicle from the 23rd Tank Corps, near Vali, in Hungary in early 1945.

This is going to be fun as I will be completely out of my comfort zone building this vehicle, feel free to criticise as long as it's helpful. A big thanks to Scott for some initial help.

Now, before I begin, some questions which you'll have to excuse if they're stupid ones. The kit is based on a vehicle from Factory 183. Looking at the preserved vehicle at Staraya (which Staraya??) on the excellent www.legion-afv.narod.ru (http://www.planetarmor.com/forums/www.legion-afv.narod.ru) there seems some differences. I wonder if they are differences or just production variations on the real thing?

1. The orientation of the episcope mounts. The kits are angled, should the straight sides run parallel with the vehicle?

http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y274/Andrewausfa/DSCF1309copy.jpg

http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y274/Andrewausfa/T-34-85_Staraya_Russa_048.jpg

2. The kits roof seems a little low and could use an overlay of 10-20 thou card. Correct?

http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y274/Andrewausfa/DSCF1310copy.jpg

http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y274/Andrewausfa/T-34-85_Staraya_Russa_036.jpg

3. The bevelled area seems to go higher on the real thing compared to the kit, nearer to the top of the bulge for the power traverse. Or is it my eyes?

http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y274/Andrewausfa/DSCF1311copy.jpg

http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y274/Andrewausfa/T-34-85_Staraya_Russa_021.jpg

Thanks - Andrey

[kinfa-t]

No it is good at it is, this kit is on my shelf also, and it is next to be build.
What version are you going to do, I was thinking of T-34/95 2.tenkovska/tank brigade NOVJ. Trst/Trieste 1945.

[James Tainton]

Andrew,
Good to see you so prolific of late, and posting a progress report on this project.

[greybeard]

Hi Andrew

Regarding your questions, the first thing to know about T-34s is that there are few, if any "rules". Some things about a kit can be absolute when the manufacturer screws up, but most often questions about the specific configuration of the tank cannot be answered without a whole string of caveats and exceptions. The T-34 was only ever called "T-34" by the Soviets, and there were no model numbers or production versions or "Ausführung" types. They did differentiate between the 76mm and the 85mm versions — one was called "T-34" and the other "T-34-85", but that's as far as it went.

The most important thing to remember is that these tanks were built — no, let me correct myself — assembled simultaneously at different factories over a period of years. The factories were fed by a huge array of contractors and subcontractors scattered all over. Some plants had several factories manufacturing components in a relatively central locations, others were less concentrated. A contractor could be supplying one or some or all the various assembly plants. This is particularly true for turrets, for example, and things like tracks and optics and other discrete components.

Another factor is the interchangeability of parts and the absolute priority to expedite deliveries. They did not maintain large stockpiles of components. For example, if one factory had a surplus of turrets, they would put them on flatcars and send them off to another factory that needed turrets, keep Factory A casting turrets but divert Factory B to casting drive wheels, if that was what was currently in short supply within the system, and those would be loaded in the few days and sent back to Factory A and other facilities on the same flatcars. the result is a huge cross-pollination of components that can make it impossible to accurately determine from one or two photos exactly who built which tank.

Also, there were constant changes made to the tank over the course of production, different changes at different factories in some cases, and none of these are really documented except in general (and often incorrect) descriptions made long after the fact. Thus, many details of a T-34-85 produced at Zavod No.112 "Krasnoe Sormovo" in July 1944, for example, would differ from one produced there in December of the same year. Likewise, one delivered by Zavod No.174 in Omsk would be subtly different from one delivered by Zavod No.183 at Nizhnii Tagil on the same day.

The whole art of determining which factory delivered what tank (in the absence of the serial number) boils down to looking at minor details like hinges for the rear plate, which were in fact manufactured in situ by the assembly plant, and where each plant had it's own unique method. Some of the literature goes into these differences in detail, but only rarely are there enough photos of combat vehicles to dot all the 'I's and cross all the 'T's. For the most part, determining the originating factory is a matter of probability more than absolutes.

Finally, when looking at preserved vehicles, you have to filter what you see. Many of these are resurrected from hulks, using any parts that would fit. Others are vehicles retired after decades of postwar service, during which they were rebuilt many times. In a different context, imagine a PzKpfw IV Ausf B with Zimmerit and Schurtzen and upgunned to a 75/L48 from 2.SS-PzDiv "Das Reich" in 1945.

I'm still looking for photos. (Achtung! Внимание! Uwaga! Attencion! Be On the Look-Out for T-34-85s with a yellow sideways diamond on the turret with a Cyrillic D ( Д ) inside. Andrew needs them!) Photos, lots of them, are what you need. Find a photo of one tank, go over it with a fine-tooth comb, take what you see and reconcile it with the information available, and build to match your conclusions. That's all you can do.

LOL! And if anyone comes up to you and says "that's not right", after you've laughed yourself out, get up off the floor, recover your breath, and reply "okay — show me!".

Cheers, mate.

Scott

[kinfa-t]

Well if it helps ex-Yugo army put on there T-34/85 a T-55 wheels, in the Homeland war in Croatia 1990'-1995' we had them also(we manage to take it from Yugoslav army and put it in ours).
These tanks were arelics but we also made a lot of upgrades-radio,machine guns....but we kept the T-55 wheels.
I will put one pic where you can see later.

[sharkmouth]

Hi Andrew,

As for the sight mounts, they rotated independently of the base. The straight sides on the base was made to clear any protuberances. So, as long as you align the base 'bolt holes' to those drilled on the turret :), you'll be fine. In other words, leave it as is or place it in any of several positions with the same bolt pattern when viewed from above.

The raised roof...difficult to tell if this was intentional.

The shapes on the sides. Sand molds could be reshaped as needed during production. As to whether the kit is wrong, I really haven't checked. Should you reshape it? Only if you want to!

Tomislav, the 'T-55' wheels you see are actually produced for the T-34 with several notable differences. The starfish pattern has different sized and shaped holes, it is narrower, and has a different hub than the T-55.

Regards,

[Andrew Hall]

Thanks gents! I think the North American phrase is 'don't sweat it' :)

Andrew

[Stuke Sowle]

Nice to see you step away from the Axis side Andrew.

Bet it turns out as nice as that Sherman thingy you did way back in the day. :)

[Sticky]

Kewl! I too like to see some non german kits!

[panamadan]

Andrew, It looks like you don't "need to sweat the small stuff"-build on! Dan

[Andrew Hall]

Some small progress on this model.

I've partly assembled the lower chassis

http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y274/Andrewausfa/T34850004.jpg

I've filled in the holes for the fuel drum mounts (30thou card, cyano + bicarbonate), mounting points for the grab handles and the small handles. I've also removed the fenders - more of which in a minute

http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y274/Andrewausfa/T34850002.jpg

http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y274/Andrewausfa/T34850003.jpg

I've also removed some of the plastic from the radiator inlets in preparation for some Aber etch to go in there. Not too worried about being careful here...

http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y274/Andrewausfa/T34850006.jpg

On to the PE this is the Aber fret

http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y274/Andrewausfa/T34850001.jpg

I've worked on the parts to replace the plastic around the inlet area, starting with this part (I've marked the R for Right side on it)

http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y274/Andrewausfa/T34850005.jpg

Which, with the use of solder iron and some bending, ends up looking like this

http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y274/Andrewausfa/T34850007.jpg

Now, going back to something I mentioned above; I removed the fenders/trackguards as I bought the Aber Fender set code 35A45. However, it seems that the brass fenders in the set are not long enough for the DML kit. Am I correct or delusional?

Thanks for looking - Andrew

[Sticky]

PE Hell! Looks good. Most of the fenders I have seen on these kits were scrached brass, now I know why!

[dsleigh]

Looks good so far Andrew, what do the Dragon parts for the bed springs look like?