Italeri - Sd.Kfz. 232 (6 Rad)

[Kreighshoer]

with two stuggies almost finished i am already in the prepping phase of this nice little fellow ...

to start with i found an interesting list of german licence plate numbering system in spielbergers book on the german armored cars stating that the numbers on the plates were assigned to different "wehrkreise" (sorry - i don't know the english expression ... roughly i'd say that wehrkreis would best be translated into english with "drafting sector") and thus depending what division a vehicle is assigned to special regard has to be taken on what number is chosen ...

the numbers of the different wehrkreise have been in 1938/39:

wehrkreis I ........ königsberg (prussia) ...... WH 10.000-19.999
wehrkreis II ....... stettin ....................... WH 20.000-29.999
wehrkreis III ...... berlin ......................... WH 30.000-39.999
wehrkreis IV ...... dresden ...................... WH 40.000-49.999
wehrkreis V ....... stuttgart .................... WH 50.000-59.999
wehrkreis VI ...... münster (westfalia) ...... WH 60.000-69.999
wehrkreis VII ..... münchen .................... WH 70.000-79.999
wehrkreis VIII .... breslau ....................... WH 80.000-89.999
wehrkreis IX ...... kassel ........................ WH 90.000-99.999
wehrkreis X ....... hamburg ..................... WH 100.000-109.999
wehrkreis XI ...... hannover .................... WH 110.000-119.999
wehrkreis XII ..... wiesbaden .................. WH 120.000-129.999
wehrkreis XIII .... nürnberg .................... WH 130.000-139.999
wehrkreis XIV .... magdeburg ................. WH 140.000-149.999
and WH 240.000-249.999
wehrkreis XV ..... jena .......................... WH 150.000-159.999
and WH 250.000-259.999
wehrkreis XVI .... berlin ......................... WH 160.000-169.999
and WH 260.000-269.999
wehrkreis XVII ... linz (donau) vorl. wien ... WH 170.000-179.999
wehrkreis XVIII ... salzburg ..................... WH 180.000-189.999

wehrkreise XIV, XV and XVI had double numbers because those were the garrisons with motorized-, light- and panzerkorps

a map from my atlas of german history mentions 5 panzerdivisions in 1939:

1st: jena (wehrkreis XV)
2nd: wien (wehrkreis XVII)
3rd: berlin (wehrkreis III or XVI)
4th: würzburg (wehrkreis XIII)
5th: oppeln (wehrkreis VIII)

combining both informations that means that:

1st division vehicles had the numbers: WH 150.000-159.999 and WH 250.000-259.999
2nd division vehicles had the numbers: WH 170.000-179.999
3rd division vehicles had the numbers: WH 30.000-39.999, WH 160.000-169.999 and WH 260.000-269.999
4th division vehicles had the numbers: WH 130.000-139.999
5th division vehicles had the numbers: WH 80.000-89.999

now i have to find out what the home garrison of 11th panzerdivision was as i wanted to assign my 232 to this my favorite division ... i am curious what else i will find out :D

phew! ... that was a load of infos without anything to show you :D

something on the build: ootb (more or less) with armorscale barrel of the 20mm kwk ... and i won't start before i finished both stuggies - the figures will be painted alongside :)

cheers and take care guys

[pwranta193]

Half the fun of this whole thing is the brainiac-ing around the what an why of a given vehicle or scene. I like seeing where other people develop or rationalize ideas, and I think it is cool to see how other people develop their plans.. That and the fact that it makes me less worried about some of the long winded explanations that I through out there in my stuff :D

Once you figure out your numbers - is there somewhere that you can get them by werkries batch? Or will you be doing micro surgery to existing plates?

The other thing that always amazes me is how many of us share the trait of mutliple project lines on our work desk.

[Kreighshoer]

Once you figure out your numbers - is there somewhere that you can get them by werkries batch? Or will you be doing micro surgery to existing plates?


any am decal or dry transfer predetermines a specific wehrkreis/division so if i want to attach my panzerspähwagen to 11th and find out the correct numbers i will have to hark back to dry transfers ... letraset they are called here (/me dunno if the name applies to germany only :o ) and are available in a lot of different sizes and fonts ... micro surgery is nothing for my gross motor skills :D

cheers

EDIT: 10:15p.m. CET +1 - and again i made myself a complete fool and typed the list from my spielberger instead of browsing one of my standard webpages prior http://www.cheesebuerger.de/images/smilie/boese/k022.gif -> wehrmacht license plates (http://chrito.users1.50megs.com/nummernschilder/license1.htm) ... http://www.cheesebuerger.de/images/smilie/boese/k022.gif ... yawn! (and another situation where my avatar matches the situation perfect ... not only during my builds!)

[Larry Bates]

Nice web page Laura,

well, you got a little practice typing.:D

Laz

[james84]

About Wehrkreise (Wiki)
"During World War II Germany used the system of military districts (German: Wehrkreis) to relieve field commanders of as much administrative work as possible and to provide a regular flow of trained recruits and supplies to the Field Army. The method they adopted was to separate the Field Army (Oberbefehlshaber des Heeres) from the Home Command (Heimatkriegsgebiet) and to entrust the responsibilities of training, conscription, supply and equipment to that command."

[Kreighshoer]

Nice web page Laura

did you surf the unit emblems also? this page is most useful in my eyes ...

anyway ... according to www.lexikon-der-wehrmacht.de (http://www.lexikon-der-wehrmacht.de) 11th panzerdivision was formed out of the 11th schützen-brigade which was formed in the wehrkreis IX and personnel was drafted from wehrkreise IX, X and XI ... 11th schützen-brigade was deployed in december 1939 and 11th panzerdivision in august 1940

so the 11th division vehicles had the license plates: WH 90.000-99.999 while in garrison ...

i wasn't aware that 11th panzerdivision was deployed too late for the french campain ... and with the information given here (http://www.achtungpanzer.com/votw/sdkfz231.htm) those vehicles were used in the polish and the french campain only and used as training vehicles afterwards ...

so it's no 11th panzerdivision for this little fella :(

cheers

[Larry Bates]

did you surf the unit emblems also? this page is most useful in my eyes ...

Wow, I hadn't seen that link Laura, very useful info. Thks I 've bookmarked it.

Laz

[MikkoH]

did you surf the unit emblems also? this page is most useful in my eyes ...

anyway ... according to www.lexikon-der-wehrmacht.de (http://www.lexikon-der-wehrmacht.de) 11th panzerdivision was formed out of the 11th schützen-brigade which was formed in the wehrkreis IX and personnel was drafted from wehrkreise IX, X and XI ... 11th schützen-brigade was deployed in december 1939 and 11th panzerdivision in august 1940

so the 11th division vehicles had the license plates: WH 90.000-99.999 while in garrison ...

i wasn't aware that 11th panzerdivision was deployed too late for the french campain ... and with the information given here (http://www.achtungpanzer.com/votw/sdkfz231.htm) those vehicles were used in the polish and the french campain only and used as training vehicles afterwards ...

so it's no 11th panzerdivision for this little fella :(

cheers

Hi Laura.

Actually I'm not so sure about that Achtun Panzer info. I have seen pics of those sixrads radio cars little modified at least in 42? I have to check out. And polizei units used those as late as 44-45! I have to check my refs. But I'm not sure if I can save your sinking 11th PD idea.:)

[Kreighshoer]

Actually I'm not so sure about that Achtun Panzer info. I have seen pics of those sixrads radio cars little modified at least in 42? I have to check out. And polizei units used those as late as 44-45! I have to check my refs. But I'm not sure if I can save your sinking 11th PD idea.:)

that would be very nice mikko but you don't need to do a search unless it doesn't bother you ... 7th panzer would be no problem for me anyways to do instead! :)

cheers

[MikkoH]

I think units that had six rads or any other early vehicles in france could have em in balkans and beginning of barbarossa and later if it didn't broke or destroy. Seems like they seldom give up vehicles just get newer ones as replacement and used older types on side of newer types. Good examples are 4th PD kleine PzBefWag I and 251 command wagen as late as 1944! I'm afraid that 11PD was formed too late to get 6-rad. Most likely they get 8-rad AC's. So if yhey didn't get one as bargain from some other unit then it's torpedoed plan I'm afraid.