A teaser . . .

[greybeard]

Teaser . . .

http://www.members.shaw.ca/dsf123/Clipboard01.jpg

http://www.members.shaw.ca/dsf123/Clipboard02.jpg

Enjoy

Scott Fraser

[DOJO]

t-70 wheel?

[greybeard]

Всё правилно, взамен макетовых частей МиниАрта, для и танких и новый Суки.

[James Tainton]

Всё правилно, взамен макетовых частей МиниАрта, для и танких и новый Суки.

Hello!?:yell:
http://www.planetarmor.com/forums/showpost.php?p=53976&postcount=8

Same goes for Cyrillic ;)

[greybeard]

Okay, James --- he's right, it's a wheel for the T-70M or SU-76.

[James Tainton]

This was on E-bay- not sure but I think it maybe related?
http://panzerfaust.sslpowered.com/planetArmor/General/Beute-5.jpg

[Larry Bates]

Nice job on the wheel Scott. :thumb:

Laz

[greybeard]

James, that's a T-70 so it's related.

Thanks Laz. The top drawing is AutoCAD, which I know well and love. The lower is from SolidWorks, quite a different animal, and a challenge to learn.

For those not aware, the MiniArt kits have issues. They are exquisitely moulded and fit perfectly, but there are problems with the running gear in all of their T-70s and T-80 and it is reasonable to expect these problems will also be shared with the SU-76 and Ya-12.

The tracks are the correct width and pitch, but the guide teeth are too close together. They are set for the T-60 and early T-70, which used a narrower track (260mm) with a shorter pitch and a thinner roadwheel (104mm). The later T-70 and subsequent vehicles had a wider track (300mm) and thicker roadwheels (130mm).

The roadwheels also have issues. Firstly, they are not thick enough, but there is nothing for it without completely replacing the track. It seems extravagant to spend $40 on a set of tracks for a $20 model, assuming that aftermarket tracks become available. The MiniArt tracks look pretty nice as they are, so we'll pretend we don't know about the width issue. (The difference is less that .030" in 1/35 scale.)
Secondly, they are the wrong profile. The center of the wheel should be a uniform curve, as shown here, rather than squashed as in the kit. The hub is also the wrong profile.

Finally, and most obvious, the wheels lack the raised ring at the edge of the metal part. Since the wheel was aluminum, this was usually bright bare metal from the friction of the guide teeth, much like the PzKpfw II.

http://members.shaw.ca/dsf123/T-70_Early_3.jpg

These wheels are a drop-in replacement for the kit wheels, and will be available in the new year. More to follow . . .

Cheers
Scott Fraser

[DOJO]

Under what company are the wheels going to be made?

and there is a set of resin tracks for the t-70(base) already made and been on the market for some time now.

What I'm understanding is that you are also going to do a drive sprocket for the T-70?

James that a nice photo as there's a T-34 on the background and got German marking but the crew is Russian. So maybe it was made to fool Germans?

[greybeard]

Under what company are the wheels going to be made?

I cannot say.

. . . and there is a set of resin tracks for the t-70 (base) already made and been on the market for some time now.

MasterClub have tracks advertised for T-60/T-70, T-70M and SU-76. The T-70M tracks are about $20, but their distributor in USA doesn't even have them listed. They have to come from Russia, which means delay and postage. Fruil have tracks advertised, too. The question is, are these for the (horrible) TechMod kit? Are the Suka tracks designed for the (equally horrible) ALAN kit? If so, they won't take a 130mm roadwheel.

If you have a set, perhaps you can tell me, are the guide teeth .15" apart (3,74mm)? If so, then they will accept roadwheels of the corrrect width. That said, I still don't like the idea of forcing people to buy aftermarket tracks, tracks that may or may not be available.

What I'm understanding is that you are also going to do a drive sprocket for the T-70?

I didn't say anything about the drive sprocket. The MiniArt drive sprocket is the correct size and shape for the T-70M and SU-76. The teeth could be thinner, but they fit the tracks fine.

Cheers
Scott

[DOJO]

Aha, there a secret... А через приват узнать можна?

Yes, i was talking about the MasterClub track. Well, if there a will there's a way to get them. If you give a bit time time I will be bale to give you the size as I'm waiting on the track and other stuff from MC. Or maybe some one else here got the tracks? ;) (I wont point the finger)

[greybeard]

Aha, there a secret... А через приват узнать можна?

Пока, нельзя. I am not at liberty to say more than I have.

Yes, I was talking about the MasterClub track. Well, if there a will there's a way to get them. If you give a bit time time I will be bale to give you the size as I'm waiting on the track and other stuff from MC. Or maybe some one else here got the tracks? ;) (I wont point the finger)

Spasibo, Ruslan — I have some coming to me, too, but they won't be here anytime soon.

Cheers
Scott

[baskette]

James that a nice photo as there's a T-34 on the background and got German marking but the crew is Russian. So maybe it was made to fool Germans?

I think the "crewman" is German wearing Russian helmet for photo pose. Look at his tunic and belt.

Mike Baskette

[baskette]

So what combinations of wheels and tracks will be obtainable after this wheel release? Will there then be options for Narrow wheels/tracks for T60/70 early and the wider combination for the late T-70 and follow-on vehicles. I'm very curious as this is one of my favorite vehicle families.

Mike Baskette

[greybeard]

Well, that's a toughie. We're hung on the horns of a dilemma.

Firstly, the MiniArt tracks are the proper width for the T-70M (300mm) but the teeth are not spaced far enough apart to take a correct 130mm wheel. Apart from that, the tracks are very nicely moulded.

Secondly, aftermarket tracks are a problem. Fruilmodel and MasterClub offet tracks for the T-70M / SU-76. MasterClub also offers the 270mm tracks for the T-60 / T-70. The crux of the matter is the distance between the guide horns. IF the tracks are made to fit existing kits (TechMod, Alan, MiniArt) then the teeth are not far enough apart for the tracks to be useable with corrected roadwheels. I cannot say, as I haven't got examples of either.

If they ARE the correct distance, then roadwheels of the correct width are useable, but then that raises another issue, or couple of issues. Now we are forcing people to buy aftermarket tracks if they wish to use these wheels. Both sets cost as much as the model, and now we get onto a slippery slope — will modellers be willing to spend $60 to $80 dollars on aftermarket parts for a $25 kit? Moreover, the kit is very nice as it is apart from these issues with the running gear (and the turret) and the level of moulding is outstanding.

Then there is a question of availablility. MasterClub tracks (which are the only choice) are hard to get in the US since they come from Ukraine and the US distributor maintains limited stocks at the best of times, no stock most of the time.

So, at this point, the sensible thing to do is to release a $10 set of wheels that fit the kit tracks but address the cosmetic isses with the kit wheels — new profile through the center and the addition of the ring inside the tire. They won't be 100% accurate, but the difference in width (.026") is small, and they will look very much better than the kit wheels.

Down the road, if we can arrange for supply of MasterClub tracks (assuming they'll fit) we can bundle tracks and correct wheels together for the T-70M and the SU-76.

Cheers
Scott Fraser

[baskette]

Scott,

Have another look at that posted T-70 photo... the one with the Germans digging in next to it. Are the wheel hubs on that vehicle scalloped around the retaining bolts or is that an illusion?

Mike Baskette

[greybeard]

I'm sure it's an illusion, the play of light and shadow around some grime. That's not to say it's impossible, given the wide network of subcontractors supplying parts to the Soviet tank-building industry, but every other photo I've seen of T-70s and T-70Ms shows them like this:

http://thmp.hobby-site.com/images/photo381.jpg

So what do you think about how wide the wheels should be?

Cheers

[baskette]

Give me a bit to see what we are up against given the current crop of tracks. I slogged through the old Alan SU76 a few years back and went with the Fruil set for the T-60/70 as that was all there was at the time. They do fit the Alan wheels which are much wider than the Techmod T-70 or any T-60 out there... but are a bit narrow. Most do not notice, but to a viewer with more than a passing knowledge of the vehicle, I think the "too narrow" bit shows.

I would be curious what ModelKasten may be up to as well. With the three T-70 kits, the T-80, SU-76 and Tractor kit in hand or on the way, they may have reason to release some tracks as well. MK tend to be "to scale" and not kit specific.

Mike

[DOJO]

MasterClub is not made in Ukraine and never was. all is made in Russia, Moscow and I'm not sure where that info came that they are UKR company.

And i send you an e-mail some time ago.

[greybeard]

MasterClub is not made in Ukraine and never was. all is made in Russia, Moscow and I'm not sure where that info came that they are UKR company.

And i send you an e-mail some time ago.

Oops, you're right Ruslan. They are in Moscow. I was thinking of another company. I have some tracks coming from Bronya35, but they will be a while. email coming.

Cheers

[baskette]

Dilemma is right...

The old Techmod kit:( has wheels that check to 2.1mm or 73.5mm 1:1
Alan SU76 is like 2.75mm or 96.25mm 1:1.. still undersized but better.
The MiniArt T70 series is 3.0mm or 105mm 1:1. I suppose that is near dead on for T60 and early T70.

The older Fruil set of T60/70 tracks set #ATL-55 measures about 3.06mm between the guide horns at their root. Almost line to line with the MiniArt wheels and in my quick check I'm not 100% sure they fit. It's very close.

I'll anxiously await the measure off the Master Club set and any new from Fruil. However, if you were marketing these wheels today... looks like you are stuck with the kit tracks and cannot widen the wheel tread else it will not fit anything.

Mike Baskette

[greybeard]

Dilemma is right...

. . . However, if you were marketing these wheels today... looks like you are stuck with the kit tracks and cannot widen the wheel tread else it will not fit anything.
Mike Baskette

Yup. That's it in a nutshell!

Cheers

[greybeard]

http://thmp.hobby-site.com/images/truck_bed-01.jpg

[Sticky]

Truck bodies too?

[greybeard]

Truck bodies too?

yes . . . why not?

If you build it, they will come . . .