AFV Club 251 Ausf.D / 9

[James Tainton]

Well I've started this one
http://members.shaw.ca/pantherd/AFV251/afv35068.jpg

the floor plate part
http://members.shaw.ca/pantherd/AFV251/afvfloorboards.jpg

the side pieces have tounges that fit into slots on the floor part.
http://members.shaw.ca/pantherd/AFV251/floor-and-side.jpg

the side armour parts
http://members.shaw.ca/pantherd/AFV251/sideparts.jpg

[johnnyboy]

hi james i was wondering what you think of this kit i almost bought it but my good buddy alpinflage talked me into getting the king tiger porsche from dragon so maybe i will pick this kit up this week.anyway hows the fig that comes with it.and what do you think of the detail.thanks johnny

[general zod]

I wonder how this kit is compared to the DML version Does the AFV Club version have indy links?

[panther]

I have built this kit. I had no problem with the top fitting to the sides at the back end of the kit but for me the front end didn't fit too good. I do like the way mine turned out. It turns out to be a nice looking kit. I am planning on building the DML one next.
Good luck
Mike

[James Tainton]

Originally posted by johnnyboy@Oct 15 2004, 08:14 PM
hi james i was wondering what you think of this kit i almost bought it but my good buddy alpinflage talked me into getting the king tiger porsche from dragon so maybe i will pick this kit up this week.anyway hows the fig that comes with it.and what do you think of the detail.thanks johnny
The figure is from Hobby Fan so the quality is pretty good, (although the cleaning rod is straight due to being made of resin. I'll replace that with wood or plastic rod) here's a pic.
http://members.shaw.ca/pantherd/AFV251/figure.jpg

[James Tainton]

Originally posted by general zod@Oct 16 2004, 05:51 PM
I wonder how this kit is compared to the DML version Does the AFV Club version have indy links?
I haven't finished building both of them yet but as you have seen the DML Kannonwagen version has its problems- the Afv one is nice in some ways but it has some flaws as well -as you will see. The tracks are the rubber band type made of a very soft rubbery type material- seems to have nice detail. A picture.
http://members.shaw.ca/pantherd/AFV251/tracks-closeup.jpg

[James Tainton]

Originally posted by panther@Oct 16 2004, 07:16 PM
I have built this kit. I had no problem with the top fitting to the sides at the back end of the kit but for me the front end didn't fit too good. I do like the way mine turned out. It turns out to be a nice looking kit. I am planning on building the DML one next.
Good luck
Mike
you oughta post a picture or two of your finished piece- I'm sure others would like to see besides me ;)

[Tuna]

I think the figure is only offered in the early runs of the kit... so grab one while you can!!!.. Actually.. I would've rather waited for DML.. more bang for the money..

[James Tainton]

Originally posted by Tuna@Oct 24 2004, 05:23 PM
I think the figure is only offered in the early runs of the kit... so grab one while you can!!!.. Actually.. I would've rather waited for DML.. more bang for the money..
I don't know about that- I think accuracy wise the AFV version is better. see the build report I'm doing on the DML one.
I have been working in the real world a lot and also lately not too inspired but got back to this build again today. I thought this would be a nice build after the issues I had with the DML version but bang! I hit another major design/fit issue with this kit. For the most part it does look to be pretty nice though. I guess neither kit is perfect.
The issue I ran into is the front suspension. The leaf spring bracket and the axle bracket match do not work. Also the front shock absorber(?) parts are in the way when fitting the leaf spring part.
This is a situation that can be fixed but its not pretty.

http://members.shaw.ca/pantherd/AFV251/frontsuspension1.jpg
(in this pic the leaf spring needs to be spun 180 degrees horizontally. I took the pic like this to show the faults.)

[James Tainton]

http://members.shaw.ca/pantherd/AFV251/fronttop6.jpg

http://members.shaw.ca/pantherd/AFV251/spring1.jpg

http://members.shaw.ca/pantherd/AFV251/spring2.jpg

I've done this all with no real good reference - anyone have a good picture of the suspension fron underneath.

[James Tainton]

but just to back up a bit before going any further on this suspension part. In the fallowing pics you can see I've taped the top armour part to ensure a proper lining up of thr side and bac/front armour pieces. Other people seem to have had some issues with the top piece being too short- Mine seems to fit fine. This was done while the glue was still wet- to allow movement to make sure that things line up.
http://members.shaw.ca/pantherd/AFV251/tape1.jpg

http://members.shaw.ca/pantherd/AFV251/tape2.jpg

http://members.shaw.ca/pantherd/AFV251/tape3.jpg

http://members.shaw.ca/pantherd/AFV251/tape4.jpg

[James Tainton]

here you can see the floor boards in and things all dry. There are those location devises like on DML's version.
http://members.shaw.ca/pantherd/AFV251/body.jpg

I made a mold of the floor just in case. ;)
http://members.shaw.ca/pantherd/AFV251/AFVfloorpour.jpg

http://members.shaw.ca/pantherd/AFV251/body1.jpg

[James Tainton]

Now back to the front suspension;
thank God that this most likely won't be seen once the front wheels go on.
http://members.shaw.ca/pantherd/AFV251/frontdone6.jpg

from underneath
with tie rod and other parts in place
http://members.shaw.ca/pantherd/AFV251/frontfinished.jpg

[James Tainton]

Steering linkage parts in place;
http://members.shaw.ca/pantherd/AFV251/steering.jpg

bottom armour plating glued in place;
http://members.shaw.ca/pantherd/AFV251/bottomplate.jpg

[James Tainton]

here you can see a comparison shot- The DML version seems to be pretty light wieght compared to the beefer AFV version. I wish I had a good photo to the front suspension to compare accuracy. The DML version seems to be a bit simpler (the brace on the back of the suspension needs to be added to the DML version yet)
http://members.shaw.ca/pantherd/AFV251/frontcomp1.jpg

http://members.shaw.ca/pantherd/AFV251/frontsuscomp2.jpg

[James Tainton]

Okay here is an update- I made a mistake in my fixing up of this suspension problem - if I were to do it again I would do it different. Live and learn. :lol:
Here is a pic of the front suspension on the real deal, and one that shows the kits parts and my botched fix up, I should have thinned the diamond mounting brackets and not the bolbous end of the leaf spring which I carved out to fit. I would say the front piston dealy things need to be thinned down though- maybe not as much - refer to the first pic here.
http://members.shaw.ca/pantherd/AFV251/251suspension1.jpg

and the second one showing just how thin the real diamond shaped mounting brackets are and how thick the AFV versions are.
http://members.shaw.ca/pantherd/AFV251/251suspension2.jpg

[James Tainton]

Using the suspension parts from the AFV Sd.Kfz.11 (same chassis as 251) I have tried to in this picture to try and explain the modifications I think might work better than what I did already.
http://members.shaw.ca/pantherd/AFV251/11sus5.jpg

[James Tainton]

Just to compare here are some pics of the DML version. Much more basic and simpler shapes.
http://members.shaw.ca/pantherd/AFV251/dml251suspension2.jpg

http://members.shaw.ca/pantherd/AFV251/dml251sus1.jpg

http://members.shaw.ca/pantherd/AFV251/dml251sus1a.jpg

[James Tainton]

I have added the axle arms for the AFV 251. Compare the details in the parts from AFV and the simplified parts of the Dragon 251. There is no extention of the armour plate skirting on the DML chassis. No bolt heads on the armour. AFV has some surface texture where as the DML armour is sheer smooth.
(I can see from the close up photos that I need to clean up the seams on the DML dampener parts) :lol:
http://members.shaw.ca/pantherd/AFV251/axle1.jpg

[James Tainton]

Now for the other suspension parts and a comparison to DML's version.

AFV
http://members.shaw.ca/pantherd/AFV251/afvidlerarm.jpg

DML
http://members.shaw.ca/pantherd/AFV251/DMLidlerarm.jpg

[James Tainton]

I am thinking of using the Friulmodel metal tracks (Alt-61) for the AFV 251. These have a different shoe that the one included with the kit (final pattern). As this is a late version of the 251/9 Ausf.D I think it would be okay. I have insufficient data to know this for sure- anybody have any info that would preclude me from using these on this 251?

http://members.shaw.ca/pantherd/AFV251/fruiltrack1.jpg

http://members.shaw.ca/pantherd/AFV251/fruiltrack2.jpg

[James Tainton]

I've decided to use the Aber photoetch set meant for the 250 to accuratize the vision port and vision block storage items of this model. The solid opache plastic parts just don't do it for me. Sure hope Aber comes out with 251 stuff one of these days. Anyways- I have a question - on the metal frame (red rectangle) of the bullet proof vision port. What colour would it have been?
http://members.shaw.ca/pantherd/AFV251/visionblock.jpg
I'm pretty sure the fire extinguiser is placed in that holder as well,right- the instructions are a little bit confusing for me- (of course on the 251 the position would be against the back wall not the side as in the 250)
Also was there two fire extingusers as in the AFV (and DML) instructions indicate or only one on the right as I have read somewhere else?

[James Tainton]

so a few progress shots.
from the side- the tape is there for when I paint the inside. I want plastic there when I go to glue in the firewall and dashboard.
http://members.shaw.ca/pantherd/AFV251/midoverall1.jpg
I have sanded down the raised indicator lines. the seat pedestal is in place as well.
http://members.shaw.ca/pantherd/AFV251/insidetape1.jpg
underneath shot
http://members.shaw.ca/pantherd/AFV251/midoverallunder.jpg

to aid in the alignment of the top part and bottom part of the hull I removed the tabs on the front inside of the top piece.
http://members.shaw.ca/pantherd/AFV251/tabcut.jpg

[James Tainton]

now the back plate goes on. This is an unusual joint but it seems to work fine with the top shell.
http://members.shaw.ca/pantherd/AFV251/backplate.jpg

dryfit with top shell
http://members.shaw.ca/pantherd/AFV251/backplate2.jpg
now the front fenders added (gas and brake pedals added )
http://members.shaw.ca/pantherd/AFV251/frontfender.jpg
as well the side storage boxes added
http://members.shaw.ca/pantherd/AFV251/fendersonside.jpg

edit;from other 251 build(DML)
Re: Here are some comparison pictures. October 27 2004, 5:33 PM

"Dimitri de Paepe
but the fittig of the upper armor is terrible. At first it seemed a little filling would do the trick as the part is about 1,5 mm too short. But the angles at the backdoor are also incorrect, so I decided to just scratch the upper armor altogether. In short, I can't wait to try to one of those dragon halftracks."

(quotes from Missing Lynx post here http://www.network54.com/Forum/thread?foru...geid=1098891265 (http://www.network54.com/Forum/thread?forumid=47207&messageid=1098891265) )

The AFV upper and lower armour shells do need concentrated effort and much dry fitting. It is a somewhat challenging fit but it does work as can be seen in this picture of one I'm building right now. This is only a dry fit but as you can see the legnths are not that bad- maybe a little sanding to level the end surfaces a tiny fraction but that's modelling ...no. The front needs some plastic strip on the top shell to fill a tiny .5 (if that) gap. Easy.
backend
http://members.shaw.ca/pantherd/251/afvbackendjoint.jpg

front end
http://members.shaw.ca/pantherd/251/AFVfrontgap.jpg

as for the angles of the back here is a comparison shot of the DML and the AFV... not much differance.
here in this comparison shot which includes a line drawing from the Ryton book on Schützenpanzer.It appears to me the AFV one is closer in comparison.

http://members.shaw.ca/pantherd/251/rearedncomparision.jpg

[James Tainton]

hatches fitted onto top for engine acccess. and front armour pieces.
http://members.shaw.ca/pantherd/AFV251/eginehatchandfrontplate.jpg

now for the vision ports stuff from Aber. First the stowage boxes. Compare to the item from the kit.
http://members.shaw.ca/pantherd/AFV251/visionport1.jpg

http://members.shaw.ca/pantherd/AFV251/visionport2.jpg
(I'll be fixin" up the radio too.)
http://members.shaw.ca/pantherd/AFV251/visionport3.jpg

[James Tainton]

been busy lately- but here is an update- opened up the side vision slit with pin vise and sand paper. and x-acto knife.
http://members.shaw.ca/pantherd/AFV251/sidevisionslit.jpg

inside I have trimmed away the mounting ribs for the front and top armour parts on the upper body hull. The vision port mounting bracket was also sanded off the front armour piece in preparation of installing the Aber parts.
http://members.shaw.ca/pantherd/AFV251/frontarmourmount.jpg

[James Tainton]

more work on the front vision port area. I have used a pin vised rill (#80) to open up the slit on the AFV front armour plate cover.
The Aber vision block holder was a real bear to get done. It's so fiddly and the sequence of bending and attaching has a learning curve. (The first one was sacrificed to this process, fortunately the 251/9 only needs one side done and the 250 set has two in it ;) )
The dark tone is due to me using a lighter to burn off excess CA glue after failed attempts at assembly. I did get to a satifactory point however, and have now based it out in Flat Black (pics tommorrow.)
http://members.shaw.ca/pantherd/AFV251/abervb3.jpg

http://members.shaw.ca/pantherd/AFV251/abervb6.jpg

http://members.shaw.ca/pantherd/AFV251/abervb6_1.jpg

[James Tainton]

the inside mounting plate for the vision block and cover. I have trimmed out the existing recessed frame on the opening in the front. (refer to the left one that is still intact.) You can see the Aber PE part replacing that detail.
http://members.shaw.ca/pantherd/AFV251/aberfrontplate.jpg

http://members.shaw.ca/pantherd/AFV251/aberfrontplate2.jpg

http://members.shaw.ca/pantherd/AFV251/aberfrontplate3.jpg

[Stuke Sowle]

Great looking progress James. I have really enjoyed reading this log as well as your Dragon one. So much to learn about the two kits and you have been a great teacher so far. ;)

The Aber stuff looks great. But I find it just a bit too intimidating still. Even though I have about five sets of the stuff, I just haven't gotten around to using any of them.

Also, a lighter to burn off excess CA glue?? On plastic, or just the PE parts? Sounds dangerous!! :)

As always thanks for sharing all your work with us here.

[James Tainton]

a lighter to burn off excess CA glue?? On plastic, or just the PE parts? Sounds dangerous!! smile.gif
Just the metal parts before they are attached to plastic.

[James Tainton]

started working on other stowage items for the interior.

http://members.shaw.ca/pantherd/AFV251/abermp40stowage.jpg
here you can see the tiny hooks that are made from wire that will suspend the ammo bag for the MP 40 machinepistol stored above it. You can see the Aber parts made for this purpose to the right of the hooks.
http://members.shaw.ca/pantherd/AFV251/gunstowage.jpg

Here is the ammo bag. It has one of the Aber attachment loops that receives the hook and having managed to lose the other one I replaced it with a loop of wire.
It also has the little bag on the side(anyone clue me in to as what was in this small side bag?)from the Aber set.
http://members.shaw.ca/pantherd/AFV251/ammobag.jpg

bag in place.
http://members.shaw.ca/pantherd/AFV251/ammobaghanging.jpg

close-up
http://members.shaw.ca/pantherd/AFV251/ammobaghangingcloseup.jpg

the MP included in the kit has had the molded on strapping removed prior to fitting into the Aber strapping.
http://members.shaw.ca/pantherd/AFV251/mg.jpg

[Finnmodeler]

Hi,
I'd guess there were cleaning kit included in smaller pouch for MP40.

Niko

[Finnmodeler]

Originally posted by panzerfaust@Oct 31 2004, 11:25 PM
now for the vision ports stuff from Aber. First the stowage boxes. Compare to the item from the kit.

Hi,
can you tell if same vision port block racks were also in 251/1?

Niko

[sbuss]

äääh,

James...

it seems you put the ammo back on it's top. Compare your assembly to the sketch from ABER...

And as a guess: i would put additional equipment for my MPi into the small bag (for cleaning). But that's just a guess.

Stefan, annoying again ;)

[Tuna]

Awsome stuff as always James!!!.. Keep those pics coming!

charlie

[Finnmodeler]

Originally posted by sbuss@Nov 8 2004, 07:23 AM
äääh,

James...

it seems you put the ammo back on it's top. Compare your assembly to the sketch from ABER...

And as a guess: i would put additional equipment for my MPi into the small bag (for cleaning). But that's just a guess.

Stefan, annoying again ;)
Yeah,
actually it looks to be upside down.

Niko

[James Tainton]

Well thanks for pointing that mistake out guys! ;) :lol:
I won't make that one again. I guess I was modelling with undue care and attention-best write me up a ticket! :)
Fortunately it's an easy fix- in a way it was a good thing as it gave me the opputunity to tweak the shape of the homemade wire loop more to my liking. I make one or two of these ass-backward mistakes on every build- part of the joy of model making.
http://members.shaw.ca/pantherd/AFV251/ammobagcorrected.jpg

[James Tainton]

Originally posted by Finnmodeler@Nov 8 2004, 05:12 AM
Hi,
can you tell if same vision port block racks were also in 251/1?

Niko
From looking at the AFV 251/1 instructions it would appear so.

[James Tainton]

onward and upward in adding detail. The smaller side vision block spares stowage case is to be made. The Aber part is folded up and soldered together.
http://members.shaw.ca/pantherd/AFV251/visionblockboxcu2.jpg

http://members.shaw.ca/pantherd/AFV251/solderingabervisionblockbox.jpg

the completed case.
http://members.shaw.ca/pantherd/AFV251/visionblockboxdone.jpg

and a comparison
(the Aber one still needs to have some spare vision blocks added.
http://members.shaw.ca/pantherd/AFV251/visionblockcomparison.jpg

[James Tainton]

the spare VB case in place as well as kit provided 7.5cm ammo case. There are redundant stowage details that are remnants from the AFV Club 251/1 kit that need to be removed.
http://members.shaw.ca/pantherd/AFV251/rightsideacc.jpg

[James Tainton]

as a little side job I started the radio refurbish..
http://members.shaw.ca/pantherd/AFV251/radio1a.jpg
http://members.shaw.ca/pantherd/AFV251/radio2.jpg
http://members.shaw.ca/pantherd/AFV251/radio3.jpg

[James Tainton]

now the AFV Club flare gun ammo box will get the Aber treatment.
http://members.shaw.ca/pantherd/AFV251/flaresbox.jpg

http://members.shaw.ca/pantherd/AFV251/flareboxinplace.jpg

http://members.shaw.ca/pantherd/AFV251/flareboxinclose.jpg

[James Tainton]

couple of overall shots

http://members.shaw.ca/pantherd/AFV251/flareoverabovefront.jpg

http://members.shaw.ca/pantherd/AFV251/flareoverallside.jpg

[James Tainton]

I'm going to try scratching the rear stowage boxes on the side as the kit provided ones, while okay I guess, are way to thick for scale. First using the kit's part I made a drawing.
http://members.shaw.ca/pantherd/AFV251/stowage-boxdrawing.jpg

[Finnmodeler]

Originally posted by panzerfaust@Nov 8 2004, 01:56 PM
From looking at the AFV 251/1 instructions it would appear so.
Thanks for info. Tamiya doesn't include those and Royal Model set either.

Keep up the pace with your /9's. My /1 is bogging down:/

Niko

[James Tainton]

I tried using this pencil drawing tonight on a dry run of cutting metal and bending to shape. From that I think I've got the right shapes and sizes. I decided to do a nice drawing on my computer - easy to make duplicates that way ;)
Here is a shot of my computer screen with images included in the PS drawing showing the original box from the kit scanned for making measurements within the drawing.
http://members.shaw.ca/pantherd/AFV251/boxdrawing.jpg

[Finnmodeler]

Originally posted by panzerfaust@Nov 9 2004, 05:19 AM
I tried using this pencil drawing tonight on a dry run of cutting metal and bending to shape. From that I think I've got the right shapes and sizes. I decided to do a nice drawing on my computer - easy to make duplicates that way ;)
Hello,
looks much better than RM's set suggest to SB missing parts :o Anyway, I've built those , too. I have to update my project pics:)
Looks pretty good compared to Eduard PE.

Cheers,
Niko

[James Tainton]

Okay now an update- first I took the drawing taped it to some sheet brass. Between the drawing and the metal I slipped in a piece of transfer paper.
http://members.shaw.ca/pantherd/AFV251/sbsb1.jpg

after the transfer is made I then use a pin that is in a pin vise funnily enough in a "pin vise" to scrath in the lines of the stowage box.
http://members.shaw.ca/pantherd/AFV251/sbsb1a.jpg

then using a new sharp knife in my trusty X-Acto and a metal ruler I carefully cut out the metal shape.
http://members.shaw.ca/pantherd/AFV251/sbsb3.jpg

jumping ahead here is the folded and soldered box. This was about the third or fourth attempt to get it right- a lot goes on behind the scenes that you guys don't see :lol:
http://members.shaw.ca/pantherd/AFV251/sbsb4.jpg

another view
http://members.shaw.ca/pantherd/AFV251/sbsb5.jpg

a comparison shot with the kit piece.
http://members.shaw.ca/pantherd/AFV251/sbsb6.jpg

now glued in place. Hard to see cause of the harsh sunlight lighting but its there is the plastic front from the kit piece that gets the cushion glued to it.
http://members.shaw.ca/pantherd/AFV251/sbsb7.jpg

http://members.shaw.ca/pantherd/AFV251/sbsb8.jpg

[Finnmodeler]

Excellent work!
Makes real difference compared to plastic part.

Niko

[James Tainton]

Looking at the ammo case from the kit next to the nice thin, and more to scale stowage box I'd just made, I decided to remove the plastic part and make a scratch built one from more brass. ;)
http://members.shaw.ca/pantherd/AFV251/ammocase1.jpg

taking measurements from the kit part I made the metal one as before with the stowage box.
http://members.shaw.ca/pantherd/AFV251/ammocase3.jpg

I took the small bits from the kit part by sanding from behind to release em.
http://members.shaw.ca/pantherd/AFV251/ammocase4.jpg

[Finnmodeler]

Hi,
is it a bit smaller on purpose? And nice use of plastic from original part.
Beware, next you'll be redoing sidewalls;)

Niko

[James Tainton]

...now some news on the vision block situation. I primed out the frames and painted them dark grey as per some reference I have. These were glued to some clear plastic "bullet proof glass" that I scratched from some scrap clear plastic using Future as the adhesive. (Future is a clear plastic floor protectant and shine giver)
The MP 40 ammo case received a base coat of dark grey as did the frames for the smaller side vision blocks
http://members.shaw.ca/nashorn/PA/AFV/visionblocks.jpg

[James Tainton]

Originally posted by Finnmodeler@Nov 11 2004, 01:46 AM
Hi,
is it a bit smaller on purpose? And nice use of plastic from original part.
Beware, next you'll be redoing sidewalls;)

Niko
I think the inside measurements is the important one. The thickness of the plastic adds to the thickness in size on the kit part. Plus that's just the way it worked out. :lol:

[Finnmodeler]

Originally posted by panzerfaust@Nov 11 2004, 04:15 AM
I think the inside measurements is the important one. The thickness of the plastic adds to the thickness in size on the kit part. Plus that's just the way it worked out. :lol:
Yeah, that is to be taken care of:) What metal you are using? Thin brass or something and how thin? I have only lead foil which is not solderable, of course. Another minus for lead foil is that you can't make sharp edges with it.

Niko

[James Tainton]

The front vision port flap was primed out in flat black and then painted the Dunkel Gelb I like to use -Xtracolor #809. I feel this is the closest match out there ;) I then made up another piece of glass and placed it in the vision block holder frame.
http://members.shaw.ca/nashorn/PA/AFV/visionblock3.jpg

http://members.shaw.ca/nashorn/PA/AFV/visionblock4.jpg

http://members.shaw.ca/nashorn/PA/AFV/visionblock6.jpg

[James Tainton]

Originally posted by Finnmodeler@Nov 11 2004, 02:27 AM
Yeah, that is to be taken care of:) What metal you are using? Thin brass or something and how thin? I have only lead foil which is not solderable, of course. Another minus for lead foil is that you can't make sharp edges with it.

Niko
I use K & S brass sheet. http://www.ksmetals.com/Images/structural_metal_sheet_display_new.jpg
http://www.ksmetals.com/SpecialShapes/default_product3.asp
For these boxes I tried a few with .005 thickness but that was too thick, so I had to get an assorted package that has one sheet that is a little thinner , don't know what size(?) but it was better. ;)

[James Tainton]

Breaker breaker- come in Tokyo.... "pilot to bombadier"
time for radio news...
got this great scan from Mr.Buss today-

http://members.shaw.ca/nashorn/PA/AFV/nbradiophoto.jpg
from Nuts and Bolts book on the 251/9
I will be able to use the Aber radio frame and I'll scratch the mounting frames to add better detail.

I primed the radio face plate and body with metal primer from Tamiya- and then painted the face plate a lighter grey and the body darker grey as per some reference.
http://members.shaw.ca/nashorn/PA/AFV/radiopainted.jpg

http://members.shaw.ca/nashorn/PA/AFV/radioreferance.jpg

no photos but this was all coated in clear Future again to seal it in preparation for a oil paint wash to add some flavour,flavour.

[James Tainton]

Also I addes a armour plate to the radio operators vision port. I used Evergreen plastic as the kit part oddly has a slit in it as to be used for looking through.(?) so I made my own.
http://members.shaw.ca/nashorn/PA/AFV/weldedvisionportplate.jpg

[Tuna]

Awsome Stuff James... we're learning a lot!!!.. Question.. does the sheet brass cut easily with an exacto?

I know not 'easy' cause you said you made a few attempts... but it's doable?

When you first said you were scratching em, I though you were gonna use styrene.. and looking at the drawings, I was like.. how the heck is that gonna fold.. but now I see!..

Keep em coming... lol we we get a diploma when this is done! :lol:

[James Tainton]

Originally posted by Tuna@Nov 11 2004, 05:43 AM
Awsome Stuff James... we're learning a lot!!!.. Question.. does the sheet brass cut easily with an exacto?

I know not 'easy' cause you said you made a few attempts... but it's doable?

When you first said you were scratching em, I though you were gonna use styrene.. and looking at the drawings, I was like.. how the heck is that gonna fold.. but now I see!..

Keep em coming... lol we we get a diploma when this is done! :lol:
Thanks- I'm learning as I go as well!!
The brass cuts fairly easily depending on thickness and sharpness of blade. You have to make several passes as opposed to trying to cut all in one pass.

So just to let you know the radio didn't go to good first time- paint flecks of metal easily- need to get some DTM (direct to metal) paint from work and try that out one of these days. Any ways burned off all the paint on the metal face plate and repainted rtried mounting clear dials ect. but alas I will have to try it again- the face plate is back at the very beginning as well as I need to remake the body as well. So as this is the first time I've made one of these Aber radios it is a learning experience for me and it is tuff to do but I will try again. You never fail until you stop trying.

[James Tainton]

here is a pick of the radio face plate after an oil wash, don't really like the result- it's gone now anyways so don't matter.
http://members.shaw.ca/nashorn/PA/AFV/radiowash.jpg

yesterday in prep to adding the top shell to the bottom assembly I cut the location tabs off. They weren't ther on the real SPW's.
http://members.shaw.ca/nashorn/PA/AFV/bodytabs.jpg

jumping ahead, in between efforts to get the radio right I completed the AFV gun and mounting. I must say that again the detail on the AFV is better than the Dragon, Here is a comparison shot.(note that the front armour plate has not yet been added to the DML gun.) They are pretty similar in accessories and configuration, but as I say the AFV noses out the DML in detail and finesse. I have used the metal barrel on the AFV 251 that came with the kit. There are some dimensional differances like in the side armour plates but more on that later.
http://members.shaw.ca/nashorn/PA/AFV/afvgun%26dmlgun1.jpg

[James Tainton]

the breech blocks are very similar , the side breech acctuator(?) is at a different position on both. Anyone tell me which position is which in to relation with the block-up and in or down and out? Get me?
http://members.shaw.ca/nashorn/PA/AFV/breechblock1.jpg

The AFV gun mounted in place. with side upper armour glued in place as well. The DML gun cannot swivel but the AFV gun can. I again wondered if these guys(DML, Alan, ect.) build these kits before they sell em? The AFV upper armour seemed to sit better on the top of the main body of the 251. Again the detail is better with for example, a bolt part holding the gun into the swivel plate from underneath.
http://members.shaw.ca/panzeriii/afvgun1.gif

[James Tainton]

comparison;
http://members.shaw.ca/nashorn/PA/AFV/afvgun2.jpg
http://members.shaw.ca/nashorn/PA/AFV/dmlgunmountforcomp.jpg

[James Tainton]

a close-up side shot with top gently test fitted.
http://members.shaw.ca/nashorn/PA/AFV/afvgunsidecloseup.jpg
http://members.shaw.ca/nashorn/PA/AFV/roughside.jpg
http://members.shaw.ca/nashorn/PA/AFV/rough3_4.jpg

[James Tainton]

the periscope for the gun sight needed to have both ends drilled out...
http://members.shaw.ca/nashorn/PA/AFV/periscope1.jpg

http://members.shaw.ca/nashorn/PA/AFV/periscope2.jpg
(that should say reflective but I'm too lazy to change it.)

[James Tainton]

one thing that DML has over the AFV 251 is that handrails come with the DML version., These attach to the upper sides by the opening. Since I have those extra sprues kindly sent to me from Dragon I have an extra set that I can use on the AFV Stummel. :) :lol: detail hounds like me love this kinda deal!!
http://members.shaw.ca/nashorn/PA/AFV/handles.jpg


http://members.shaw.ca/nashorn/PA/AFV/handrailsinplace.jpg

[Finnmodeler]

Originally posted by panzerfaust@Nov 11 2004, 04:49 AM
Breaker breaker- come in Tokyo.... "pilot to bombadier"
time for radio news...
got this great scan from Mr.Buss today-

I will be able to use the Aber radio frame and I'll scratch the mounting frames to add better detail.

I primed the radio face plate and body with metal primer from Tamiya- and then painted the face plate a lighter grey and the body darker grey as per some reference.


no photos but this was all coated in clear Future again to seal it in preparation for a oil paint wash to add some flavour,flavour.
Hi,
VERY helpful photos. I have Aber's radio set and last photo cleared the useage of one acetatefilm. I first thought those stencils/markings/what ever aren't very convincing but those markings plates really are plates.

Big thanks to you, James!

[Finnmodeler]

Originally posted by panzerfaust@Nov 12 2004, 03:20 AM
the periscope for the gun sight needed to have both ends drilled out...

(that should say reflective but I'm too lazy to change it.)
Hi,
how about putting some Crystal Clear or similar? First black or dark blue color inside and then fill with, maye even Future...

Niko

[Finnmodeler]

Originally posted by panzerfaust@Nov 12 2004, 03:48 AM
one thing that DML has over the AFV 251 is that handrails come with the DML version., These attach to the upper sides by the opening. Since I have those extra sprues kindly sent to me from Dragon I have an extra set that I can use on the AFV Stummel. :) :lol: detail hounds like me love this kinda deal!!

Shee,

These Stummels come along nicely! I started to think if I build my Tamiya /9 OOB, well almost as there is Eduard PE and some tracks...

Niko

[Finnmodeler]

Originally posted by panzerfaust@Nov 11 2004, 04:28 AM
The front vision port flap was primed out in flat black and then painted the Dunkel Gelb I like to use -Xtracolor #809. I feel this is the closest match out there ;) I then made up another piece of glass and placed it in the vision block holder frame.

What did you use for vision block? Looks very good.
Sorry about my gazillion questions.

Niko

[James Tainton]

Fin I use scrap clear plastic from another model for the glass blocks. Course I have to cut and shape the piece to fit. ;)
here is a rough shot of the top and bottom
http://members.shaw.ca/nashorn/PA/AFV/afvtopandbottomrough.jpg

Well since I left you, my dear readers, catastrophe! (well not really):lol: But things didn't go well with the radio.
The paint I had used to paint the metal face plate chipped off here and there while I was handling it trying to get the clear ABER dial decal thing glued to the back and then inseting that into the main body part of the radio. This happened twice. Suffice it to say I had to start from scratch. Plus I wrecked the clear decal film. No matter- the whaite of the dial face areas will be adequete for my needs. Next time I'll get it right.
But this time I got smart. I used an etching primer used to coat sheet metal in auto bosy work. It is a laquer based product which I like. (I use a respirator- and you should too). Because of the oddalmost soapstone quality of the AFV Club plastic I decided to use this "etching" primer for the plastic as well as I had visions of if I used regular enamel paint it may not stay on and chip or flake off. I do not know if this would happen- but I didn't want to take a chance anyways.
http://members.shaw.ca/nashorn/PA/AFV/afvprimer.jpg

Here I have sprayed out some of the parts and area ready to get some preparation for painting. I decanted the paint from the sparay can by squirtinging a little bit into my airbrush cup and spraying that. More control than if sprayed directly from the spray bomb. The interior of the body ammo, ammo case other items got the treatment.

[James Tainton]

http://members.shaw.ca/nashorn/PA/AFV/afvprimer2.jpg

http://members.shaw.ca/nashorn/PA/AFV/afvprimer3.jpg

http://members.shaw.ca/nashorn/PA/AFV/afvprimer4.jpg

http://members.shaw.ca/nashorn/PA/AFV/afvprimer5.jpg

http://members.shaw.ca/nashorn/PA/AFV/afvprimer6.jpg

[James Tainton]

the re done radio set.
http://members.shaw.ca/nashorn/PA/AFV/radio21.jpg

http://members.shaw.ca/nashorn/PA/AFV/radio21a.jpg

i was going to use the radio frame that came with this 250 set but on closer examination of the N&B photo I can't use it. I can use the circled, isolaton suspension parts.

http://members.shaw.ca/nashorn/PA/AFV/radio22.jpg

[James Tainton]

Aber fire extiguisher upgrade done;
http://members.shaw.ca/nashorn/PA/AFV/fireextingusher.jpg

another item that is better in the DML 251 that the AFV is the door securing hardware. On the AFV the system for opening and closing the doors is molded on. Nu uh ;)
I sanded this feature off the doors and will use the spare set I have from the DML sprue.
http://members.shaw.ca/nashorn/PA/AFV/afvdoors1.jpg

http://members.shaw.ca/nashorn/PA/AFV/afvdoors2.jpg

[James Tainton]

radio frame made.... a collage...
http://members.shaw.ca/nashorn/PA/AFV/radiocollage.jpg

[Finnmodeler]

Originally posted by panzerfaust@Nov 13 2004, 10:00 PM
another item that is better in the DML 251 that the AFV is the door securing hardware. On the AFV the system for opening and closing the doors is molded on. Nu uh ;)
I sanded this feature off the doors and will use the spare set I have from the DML sprue.

Hi von James!

I think AFV has made a small goof with reardoors? Shouldn't doors be made of of part? As marked with red arrows, AFV's door is two part or two layered?

http://www.kitpic.com/is.php?i=5804&img=afvdoors.jpg
It will show incorrectly when door is open.
Please correct ME if I'm wrong:) Wouldn't be the 10th time and certainly won't be the last.

Niko

[Piet Duits]

Hi,

You are correct, the doors are too thick.
That is mainly because of the fact the whole armour is too thick.
Part of Poland made a very nice PE set for the back doors. The upper armour should be as thick as those PE doors.

Piet

[Finnmodeler]

Originally posted by Piet Duits@Nov 15 2004, 06:52 AM
Hi,

You are correct, the doors are too thick.
That is mainly because of the fact the whole armour is too thick.
Part of Poland made a very nice PE set for the back doors. The upper armour should be as thick as those PE doors.

Piet
Hi,
and armour should be thickness of 8 or 12 mm? Part's sets are very comprehensive and at the same time quite difficult. Anyway, redoing sidewalls, doors etc. would be great but almost impossible to make, at least with my skills:)
Sidewalls should be made of metal, right? Plastic might bend too much.
Niko

[James Tainton]

HEy Finn, as Piet says, the doors should be flat. Thanks for noticing, see I'm learning stuff too. :lol: I'm pretty sure lots on my build is inaccirrate but as this is the first 251/D that I've done I'll be learning as I go- next time... ;) Thanks for all your comments Finn, (and sbuss, and now Piet). I think these doors would be pretty easy to scratch- and I was thinking to replace the side armour with metal on a future project? I'm not worried about thiese doors though as they will be closed on my model-

[Piet Duits]

James,

If you build the backdoors in the closed position, it would be hard to notice the thickness.
However, if you decide to build a 251 with thinner walls, be prepared to do a lot of work.
I have tried to do it myself too, and then AFV-Club introduced this great model. So, I stopped trying.

I used very thin evergreen plastic, that was too soft. Then I used a thicker plastic and wasn't satisfied with that either. So, I also used thin brass sheets. These sheets are very good and convincing, but a lot harder to work with. Try to cut sharp and straight lines with a scalpel without destroying the blade. I also tried to cut the metal with scissors, but that bended the plates. No good result either.

Good luck with it. I will be looking over your shoulder to see how you tackle this. So I can try it myself too :)


Piet

[sbuss]

James,

i guess you will be annoyed/unnerved/happy/whatever to hear/read that Voyager has just released a PE-set for the AFV Kanonenwagen...

This includes the pieces that you have scratched.

Why do companies tend to publish kits like this just five minutes after one has finished a complicated conversion?

And for an update of my Kanonenwagen: i have to stop for the time being. One of my cats destroyed one of the AFV single-link-tracks yesterday :angry: ... Replacement is already on the way.

Stefan

[Finnmodeler]

Originally posted by panzerfaust@Nov 15 2004, 09:30 AM
HEy Finn, as Piet says, the doors should be flat. Thanks for noticing, see I'm learning stuff too. I'm pretty sure lots on my build is inaccirrate but as this is the first 251/D that I've done I'll be learning as I go- next time... Thanks for all your comments Finn, (and sbuss, and now Piet). I think these doors would be pretty easy to scratch- and I was thinking to replace the side armour with metal on a future project? I'm not worried about thiese doors though as they will be closed on my model-
James,
yes, I've noticed too in my project that if you correct something, you should correct something else, too :lol: Actually rather frustrating :angry:
And I've looked with envy your project to progress but these are very helpful for me and others, too. We can see what to do and how to do. I just hope that others would show their stuff also.
I open doors in Tamiya and thickness shows quite badly. Not sure yet if I'll redo doors or just leave it that way.
Rear doors in D would be rather easily scratched compared to C?

Niko

[James Tainton]

Originally posted by sbuss@Nov 16 2004, 03:53 AM
James,

i guess you will be annoyed/unnerved/happy/whatever to hear/read that Voyager has just released a PE-set for the AFV Kanonenwagen...

This includes the pieces that you have scratched.

Why do companies tend to publish kits like this just five minutes after one has finished a complicated conversion?

And for an update of my Kanonenwagen: i have to stop for the time being. One of my cats destroyed one of the AFV single-link-tracks yesterday :angry: ... Replacement is already on the way.

Stefan
Actually- I did know about that
http://puma.ezstores.net/product_info.php?...dc88ae64d4a1f4a (http://puma.ezstores.net/product_info.php?product_id=15080&returnURL=http%3A%2F%2Fpuma.ezstores.net%2Fcategor ies.php%3Fset_bcs%5Bcategory%5D%3D5097&PHPSESSID=2b8eb359313a02a62dc88ae64d4a1f4a)
I'm not really that bothered really- I don't think the Voyager sets are up to Aber's standard- (as I have not got this set, this opinion is only supposition) from what I've seen. I may be getting one of these Voyager sets in the future, but I'm still pretty happy with my results.My experience wth aftermarket sets and PE ect. is that upon closer examination many details are simplified and I could scratch something that I would like better. (read;Verlinden especially :lol: ) And as this is my first 251 build in a long while I'm okay if this one is not "perfect" ;)

[James Tainton]

Originally posted by sbuss@Nov 16 2004, 03:53 AM
James,

i guess you will be annoyed/unnerved/happy/whatever to hear/read that Voyager has just released a PE-set for the AFV Kanonenwagen...

This includes the pieces that you have scratched.

Why do companies tend to publish kits like this just five minutes after one has finished a complicated conversion?

And for an update of my Kanonenwagen: i have to stop for the time being. One of my cats destroyed one of the AFV single-link-tracks yesterday :angry: ... Replacement is already on the way.

Stefan
The main reason I do not have a cat :lol: , even though I would really like one. :(

[James Tainton]

well I've beeen busy with work but have got some news. Tonight I have actually started to add a wash to the interior of the 251 that I have painted in dunkel gelb, and coated with Future. It's hard sometimes to keep up with the photos as the build goes along but tommorrow I'll take some more up to date images. The fallowing are from a few days ago. First (underlit) one is where I've layed out all the loose sub-assemblies and parts to take stock of where I'm at and then paint the things ready to paint with the grey primer that I bought, (decanted into the airbrush cup.)
http://members.shaw.ca/nashorn/PA/AFV/dg.jpg

next is a couple of comparison shots between the AFV rear seat and the DML version. I ended up using the DMLL version on this AFV model.
http://members.shaw.ca/nashorn/PA/AFV/afvdmlseatcomparison.jpg

http://members.shaw.ca/nashorn/PA/AFV/afvdmlseatcomparison2.jpg

The radio and frame painted but not complete- truth be told I was not happy with this arrangement and have redone the radio and stripped the paint from the frame- redone about the third time now. sheesh! :(
http://members.shaw.ca/nashorn/PA/AFV/painted-radio.jpg

I finally got the gumption to do the second driver's side metal stowage bin as well -that was a relief as I did not feel like doing this- a queer mental twist sometimes occurs that takes away the inspiration to do certain things... the many uncompleted kits stewn about the workshop can atest to this.
:lol:
Since the driver's side stoage bin front did not have the padding in place, as there was no seat on that side due to the placement of a ammo storage locker, I made the pad mount with metal and soldered it to the metal bin ....sweet. I like stuff like that for some odd reason.
http://members.shaw.ca/nashorn/PA/AFV/storagebin2.jpg

http://members.shaw.ca/nashorn/PA/AFV/stowagebin2b.jpg ;)

[James Tainton]

in this pic you can see the second bin in place and the grey primer painted on it and in some other areas. The rear doors doors are in place as well.
http://members.shaw.ca/nashorn/PA/AFV/primedinterior.jpg


I tried dry fitting the radio and frame with the kit's radio side mounting frames and was not happy with the representation. I had originally going to use them but in the end I did make some scratch metal ones. These look more like the real ones anyway.
http://members.shaw.ca/nashorn/PA/AFV/metalradioframes.jpg

[James Tainton]

the wheels have been primed and painted with the base colour. The interiorwas painted in a red primer colour.
now after coating with Future, I add a wash of oil paint.
http://members.shaw.ca/nashorn/PA/AFV/washedwheels1.jpg

http://members.shaw.ca/nashorn/PA/AFV/washedwheelscloseup.jpg

here the wheels have been wiped back
http://members.shaw.ca/nashorn/PA/AFV/washedwheelswiped.jpg

http://members.shaw.ca/nashorn/PA/AFV/washedwheelswipedcloseup.jpg

as can be seen some of the base paint came off- perhaps the Future was not on thick enough or since I've never used this etch primer before...? :(
In any event the middle of the wheels held the colour and I will be adding many layers of weathering and aging to the wheels so in the end the base colour may not show any way. The next step is to drybrush the wheels with a colour mixed from oil paint to aproximate the base colour. Prior to drybrushing I use a flat matt cote from Humbrol to give the surface a "tooth" as the smooth surface of the underlying Future would not hold the drybrushing very well. The tone appears to be fairly close if a bit too yellow in these close ups. That was tweaked in succesive wheels and in any event the dirt and dust to be added will obliterate this layer, but it is important for mye to have the underpainting. For me good weathering is not a quick process and requires many layers and patience with the process of building up a realistic look. Digital fotos really seem to show things not seen by the naked eye. ;)

http://members.shaw.ca/nashorn/PA/AFV/drybrushmix.jpg

http://members.shaw.ca/nashorn/PA/AFV/oilpaint.jpg

http://members.shaw.ca/nashorn/PA/AFV/drybrushwheels.jpg

http://members.shaw.ca/nashorn/PA/AFV/drybrushedwheelcloseup.jpg

http://members.shaw.ca/nashorn/PA/AFV/drybrushwheelcloseup.jpg

[Tuna]

I usually let Future 'cure' about 3 days before a wash... It almost looks good like that.. just touch up the rubber on the road wheels...


thanks for the tip on doing a flat coat before drybrushing.. that sounds like a good idea!

[James Tainton]

I let my coating cure overnight-figure that was good enough, seemed to work in the past. The decay here is prolly several causes- 1. not enough of a coating, maybe I neede a thicker protecting layer. And I think the primer may not takr enamel paint? I don't know the produc, it's new to me and maybe that was the reason. I too kinda liked the look of the worn paint with the grey underneath but as I'm doing a later vehicle-most likely I'm thinking, the SPW would have come from the factory with the DunkelGelb as a base coat. In any event I think in the end it won't matter wjat with the dirt and all going on next. I really think the problem was not enough Future as other items like the interior and firewall, seemed to have held up. Oh well... (I did seem to lose a wheels in the process!! :lol: (good thing I have the new wheels (251/10) on a spare sprue from DML to replace it.)
Anyway on to the fire wall...
with the gas mask container added and the wash...
http://members.shaw.ca/nashorn/PA/AFV/firewallwashed.jpg
here it's been wiped back.
http://members.shaw.ca/nashorn/PA/AFV/firewallwiped.jpg

[James Tainton]

I let the wash dry overnight and use a rag with a tiny bit off thinner to wipe it back.

http://members.shaw.ca/nashorn/PA/AFV/washeditems.jpg

http://members.shaw.ca/nashorn/PA/AFV/washedinterior.jpg

http://members.shaw.ca/nashorn/PA/AFV/washedinterior2.jpg

http://members.shaw.ca/nashorn/PA/AFV/washedinterior3.jpg

http://members.shaw.ca/nashorn/PA/AFV/ammoboxwashed.jpg

http://members.shaw.ca/nashorn/PA/AFV/interiorwiped.jpg

http://members.shaw.ca/nashorn/PA/AFV/interiorwipedback2.jpg

[James Tainton]

breech block progress shot
http://members.shaw.ca/nashorn/PA/AFV/brechblock1.jpg

fire extingusher and BB and shells - I want to do the markings on the shells.

http://members.shaw.ca/nashorn/PA/AFV/breechblockandshells.jpg

I got this pic and e-mail from a guy who collects shells...(Thanks Matt ;) )

Hi James,

I've attached an image of actual examples of this type of AP round- you can
see the markings quite clearly. The directions are very basically correct-
a flat black projectile and a brass case- but if you want to go for real
authenticity you can add the copper driving band, the red band above it,
'KPS' in white and the loading and explosive data in red. The big 16 just
below the ballistic cap is the explosive type code, the date just above the
red band is the charge loading and fuzing date, 'KPS' stands for
Kupferstahl- meaning the driving band is a copper steel alloy, and I'm
actually not sure what the capital 'A' stands for. Since you're working in
1/35 scale, you should be able to paint all these things on the rounds with
a 000 or 10-0 brush. For a final touch, you can put the abbreviation 'Pzgr'
in black on the base of the rounds.

Just in case you want to make one of the rounds an HE type, all you have to
do paint it with a olive drab/black (95/5), paint the tip silver or aluminum
to about 1/4 of the way down the ballistic cap, and paint the same
information as is in red for the AP round, but in black. The 'KPS' should
be white still, and the abbreviation 'Sprgr' should go on the base.

http://members.shaw.ca/nashorn/PA/AFV/7,5cm-KwK-Pzgr-DAK.jpg

[James Tainton]

I was thinking of scratching the seat but- I want to see this kit finished!-(Maybe next timee...)
I wanted to bring out the springs on the back so I washed a thick mix of oil painted and let it dry overnight- then using a piece of card to wipe it back,(a rag would go into the recessed area I didn't want that.) It worked alright but I maybe could have used more Future???
http://members.shaw.ca/nashorn/PA/AFV/seatswashed.jpg

http://members.shaw.ca/nashorn/PA/AFV/washedseatwipedback.jpg

http://members.shaw.ca/nashorn/PA/AFV/wipedbackseat.jpg

[James Tainton]

Okay, now I start to get to do a few fun things... the interior floor plating now gets a dry-brushing with a metal cote' colour from Humbrol- I'll get the number later-to tired to bother getting up from the chair right now. ;) It goes on flat but buffs up to a nice metallic sheen. This I applied in a way to show wear in the high traffic areas. This stage is one of many successive aging steps I will use to try and give an authentic look of the wear and tear that could happen with a vehicle that willl have been in the field for a while. ;)
http://members.shaw.ca/nashorn/PA/AFV/metalpaintonfloor.jpg

http://members.shaw.ca/nashorn/PA/AFV/metalfloor2.jpg

Next I airbrushed into the corners and recesses a earth colour paint to imply accumulated dirt that would not be moved but boots or equipment.
http://members.shaw.ca/nashorn/PA/AFV/dirtinside.jpg


The ammo box gets a sgingand scuffing treatment as well. I accomlish this using a toothpick with tiny bits of paint on it and "painting" with it. In the movie set bpainting biz we call this block aging and we use real pieces of wood with small amounts of paint on them and rub along doors,walls ect. to show nicks and abrasions that happen in the real world. I've just tried to minaturize the process.
http://members.shaw.ca/nashorn/PA/AFV/toothpick.jpg

http://members.shaw.ca/nashorn/PA/AFV/agedammobox.jpg

I could have added PE cover latches but... nah... next time I'll go all out :lol:

Here the ammo box finds its home as it is glued into position.
http://members.shaw.ca/nashorn/PA/AFV/ammoboxinstalled.jpg

[James Tainton]

Now the wooden seat bench. I used a referance photo from a book I have on a refurbished 251. Because it is refurbished it may reflect a nicer look than the war time ones had but I was intriged to see if I could replicate the look. I think I came close enough for the girls I go out with. ;)
I think I need to add some grey that happens to wood exposed to the out of doors.
http://members.shaw.ca/nashorn/PA/AFV/seats.jpghttp://members.shaw.ca/nashorn/PA/AFV/W052.jpg

There will be other weathering steps but the basic process to this point was a light base colour over-painted with artist's oil paint nad wiped back after a while.

http://members.shaw.ca/nashorn/PA/AFV/bench2.jpg

http://members.shaw.ca/nashorn/PA/AFV/bench3.jpg

http://members.shaw.ca/nashorn/PA/AFV/ammobox2.jpg

[Tuna]

Wow.. that ammo box looks awsome!!!.. I'm gonna have to try the toothpick instead of the 'tiny brush' for chipping/scratching next time!

On the future.. I used to have it not work sometimes, like on the wheels.. but since I started letting it dry for 3 days.. I don't see that.. I think I read somewhere else that it takes a while for it to totally harden.. but maybe you are right and you didn't have enough... I usually do two seperate coats.. one before decals and another after..

[Stuke Sowle]

Wow..that wood slatting on the bench looks sweet!! :)

Great weathering so far, it really does have that "lived-in" look.

As always, thanks for taking the time to share all this with us.

[James Tainton]

Thanks - I appreciate the praise and for taking the time to make a comment ;)
I made some metal mud flaps to replace the to thick kit ones.
http://members.shaw.ca/nashorn/PA/AFV/mudflaps.jpg

the bottom I painted in primer red and did the dirt there as well- I will be adding mud next.
http://members.shaw.ca/nashorn/PA/AFV/primerunderneath.jpg

http://members.shaw.ca/nashorn/PA/AFV/dirtunderneath.jpg

http://members.shaw.ca/nashorn/PA/AFV/earthunderneath.jpg

[Piet Duits]

James,

You did a great job, which inspired me a lot.
I have one remark though, something I have just seen for the first time.
No remarks on your kit, not at all!, but just a general remark.

Both Tamiya, Dragon and AFV-Club made a mistake on the stowagebins of their 251 Ausf. D; the complete fighting compartment (including stowagebins) could be bolted off. The stowagebins of above mentioned kits don't represent this.
Part of Poland have released an update for this, deviding these bins into 2 elements.
To see what I mean, please check this: http://jadarhobby.home.pl/bigimages/part/p35089.jpg


Piet

[James Tainton]

Thanks for comments Piet, but I'm not understanding "bolted off", Do you have a pic of the real deal? Thanks

[Guest]

James,

Euh... nope. All I have are "standard references".
How do I explain this...
As you perhaps know the bodywork of the 251 excisted out of 3 elements.: the front compartment (over the radiator), the engine/drivers compartment and finally the fighting compartment.
Each compartment could be seperated. The fighting compartment had the larger part of the stowage bins welded on (at least, I believe it was welded).
The engine/drivers compartment had the front section of the stowage bins welded.
The compartments were bolded together from the inside.

I hope you understand what I mean.
If you have the Ground Power Special on the 251, you can find a picture of what I mean on page 76 and 77.
This is a special example if you ask me, as it seems this particular 251 is reinforced by steel plates

Piet

[Joh]

So as you look at the side of a Ausf D, what you'd expect is that if you unbolted the fighting compartment from the driver's compartment, the rear two stowage bins would come off with the fighting compartment, leaving the front stowage bin still attached to the drivers compartment.
In photos, you can see a seem between the first (closest to front) and second stowage bins.

Robert

[James Tainton]

Originally posted by Guest@Nov 24 2004, 07:46 AM
James,

Euh... nope. All I have are "standard references".
How do I explain this...
As you perhaps know the bodywork of the 251 excisted out of 3 elements.: the front compartment (over the radiator), the engine/drivers compartment and finally the fighting compartment.
Each compartment could be seperated. The fighting compartment had the larger part of the stowage bins welded on (at least, I believe it was welded).
The engine/drivers compartment had the front section of the stowage bins welded.
The compartments were bolded together from the inside.

I hope you understand what I mean.
If you have the Ground Power Special on the 251, you can find a picture of what I mean on page 76 and 77.
This is a special example if you ask me, as it seems this particular 251 is reinforced by steel plates

Piet
I don't have that book- any chance I can get you to scan and post the picture?

[sbuss]

James,

i think that Piet is referring to the gap that is present on the lower hull of the AFV-model (that gap should as well be on the storage boxes, between the first and second locker). this gap was misrepresented in earlier kits (Tamiya) as a weld, but is definitely a gap - the flange on the innerside was used to bolt the driving and the rear compartment together.

maybe it's easier to understand what he is talking about when looking at the pictures of the restauration process ongoing in Ft. Knox - at least one of the pictures shows the driving compartment removed from the chassis and standing on the ground.

Another thing: The small seat next to the radio, wasn't that a wooden one as well?

Stefan

[James Tainton]

Originally posted by sbuss@Nov 25 2004, 12:42 AM
James,

i think that Piet is referring to the gap that is present on the lower hull of the AFV-model (that gap should as well be on the storage boxes, between the first and second locker). this gap was misrepresented in earlier kits (Tamiya) as a weld, but is definitely a gap - the flange on the innerside was used to bolt the driving and the rear compartment together.

maybe it's easier to understand what he is talking about when looking at the pictures of the restauration process ongoing in Ft. Knox - at least one of the pictures shows the driving compartment removed from the chassis and standing on the ground.

Another thing: The small seat next to the radio, wasn't that a wooden one as well?

Stefan
okay I think I get what you meant Piet..
http://members.shaw.ca/nashorn/PA/AFV/sidephoto.jpg
You are talking about the small gap that is between the front bins and the rear ones. Thanks for pointing that out... I may attempt scribbing a line in the appropriate location, depending on how motivated I can get, specially with some parts already glued in place. It would be better to do this at the very, very begining, before the bins are even attached to the hull.

Mr. sbuss- the radio operator seat is wood slating. It's just I haven't started to do the wood painting on that seat yet- I was thinking of giving it a worn look, more weathered than the benches. I feel perhaps the wood on this small little seat was not of the same quality as the bigger benches?

Have no fear I will deal with it in due course. :)

[Guest]

James,

Exactly, that was the thing I was referring about.
It took me some time to get it right, but I made a groove in the otherwise nice stowagebins in the same thickness as the groove between the fighting and drivers compartment.

I can't make any scans due to stupid incompatabillity between my scanner and XP... :angry:

[sbuss]

James,

as i am terribly curious: what kind of dunkelgelb did you use? i am sure this is not the gunze-sangyo one, and this doesn't look like tamiya to me.

i like it very much. gives an already worn use from the very beginning.

Another thing, where you can help me this time: following a picture from the restauration, i decided to paint the interior of the storage bins with red primer only. Does this sound sensible to you?

Stefan

[James Tainton]

Here are some chips showing the actual RAL colors. The main hue is on end on the right.
http://members.shaw.ca/achtungpanzer/Dunkelgelb4.jpg
Humbrol 84 is sited as a good match from the book these came from. Wehrmacht Heer Camouflage Colors by Thomas Chory

this page may be of interest to those seeking accurate paint colors.
http://byrden.com/panzers/Colours/index.html

I use the suggested Xtracolor 809

[James Tainton]

Originally posted by sbuss@Nov 25 2004, 06:19 AM
...following a picture from the restauration, i decided to paint the interior of the storage bins with red primer only. Does this sound sensible to you?


I would say from looking at photos of 251 D side stowage bin doors open, that the interior of the stowage space would be red primer. However, to me, it seems the door itself would be be painted base dunklegelb, inside and out.

http://members.shaw.ca/nashorn/PA/AFV/stowagedoorsopen.jpg
example; Armor at War Series, The Battle of the Bulge by Steve Zaloga, from Concord Publications Company.

[James Tainton]

Man- I want sdo bad to get this one over with... I don't really care for the level I've got on this one, but I console myself saying it's just a first-time build- there is a lot I'm learning about the vehicle and the kit aa I go along. Many things I would do differently next time.
anyways..
I installed the FE (I'm just going to put one in for this one although there is much debate as to whether there were two in the back or one (part of the decision is because I only have the one in this Aber set so..)
Wish I had a decal for it....
http://members.shaw.ca/nashorn/PA/AFV/Feinstalled.jpg

and the dashboard painted and installed-next time I will use a PE upgrade.
http://members.shaw.ca/nashorn/PA/AFV/dashpainted.jpg

I also scribed that join line on the stowage boxes last night. Now this all makes sense when seen in relation to those strucual members that are on the inside with the bolts on either side.
http://members.shaw.ca/nashorn/PA/AFV/jointscribed.jpg

added the wire that is for the Boshe light
http://members.shaw.ca/nashorn/PA/AFV/wireforlight.jpg

and installed the spare vision blocks into their holders.
http://members.shaw.ca/nashorn/PA/AFV/visionblocksinstalled.jpg

[James Tainton]

I decided to use the seat back armor from the Aber set. After looking at a pic of the real thing I decided to add the mounting tabs absent from the PE part.

http://members.shaw.ca/nashorn/PA/AFV/seatarmor.jpg

[James Tainton]

I became unhappy with the look of the seat from the kit. So I decided to scratch one.
http://members.shaw.ca/nashorn/PA/AFV/seatconstruction.jpg

I used some scrap wire of the right thickness and then thought to solder some tiny springs to replicate the end of the seat back frame joins the horizontal part. It looked okay at first but in the end I did not go ahead with it.
http://members.shaw.ca/nashorn/PA/AFV/frame6.jpg
I also was not happy with the spacing of the springs on the back- and while moving them about the tiny spring end bits came off and then in the end it all got screwed up...(plus the top seat back spring was the wrong way around- I could have left it but it bugged me....)

but I had another set of seat springs to work with so I made another attempt and this one turned out great. :) (the slight bend on the right part of the frame has been straightened.)
http://members.shaw.ca/nashorn/PA/AFV/seatframe7firstonefinished.jpg

and now the frame for the padding and completing the skeleton for the seat back.
http://members.shaw.ca/nashorn/PA/AFV/seatpad.jpg

[Markus]

James,
i´m following your blog since the start and i think it´s time to give you some feedback now ;)...

Your 251 will turn out to be a real masterpiece, especially the seat is more than outstanding!!!

Keep up the great and inspirational work!

All the best
Markus

[James Tainton]

Thanks Marcus- masterpiece,hardly :lol:
Hopefully I can just get it done.
I added the MP40 and ammo bag and aged the floor more. I don't like the AFV shift sticks so I will replace with the DML ones which are more accurate.
http://members.shaw.ca/nashorn/PA/AFV/mginplacewoldsticks.jpg

[James Tainton]

the bench seat and radio seat with more weathering.
http://members.shaw.ca/nashorn/PA/AFV/agingonfloorandbench.jpg

http://members.shaw.ca/nashorn/PA/AFV/newsticks.jpg

some better shots of interior
http://members.shaw.ca/nashorn/PA/AFV/MGinplacea.jpg

http://members.shaw.ca/nashorn/PA/AFV/MGinplacecu.jpg
the sticks have been painted
http://members.shaw.ca/nashorn/PA/AFV/weatherd-seat.jpg

[Stuke Sowle]

I agree with Markus, this one will turn out to be a masterpiece..just for the seat back alone!! :)

Seriously man, the work you have done to improve the seat is amazing. I wish I could handle that delicate of detail on my models.

Also, the weathering on the floor looks real good. Nice and grimy. :)

[Markus]

Getting better and better James!
I agree with Stuke, i could never handle that tiny details man! :lol:

[James Tainton]

Originally posted by Stuke Sowle@Nov 28 2004, 05:33 PM
I agree with Markus, this one will turn out to be a masterpiece..just for the seat back alone!! :)

Seriously man, the work you have done to improve the seat is amazing. I wish I could handle that delicate of detail on my models.

Also, the weathering on the floor looks real good. Nice and grimy. :)


Getting better and better James!
I agree with Stuke, i could never handle that tiny details man! laugh.gif
Thanks guys, and if I can do it so can you- just give it a try...soldering is not that hard. It just gets easier with practice.

[Robert Ward]

James,

Astonishing work!

Couple of nieve questions:
- Did you use the acetate from the ABER 250 set for the dashboard dials?
- Did you consider milling down the spring detail on the original kit seat back and then adding the PE springs, rather than scratchbuilding the whole seatback?

Thanks,
Robert

[James Tainton]

Originally posted by Robert Ward@Nov 28 2004, 11:23 PM
James,

Astonishing work!

Couple of nieve questions:
- Did you use the acetate from the ABER 250 set for the dashboard dials?
- Did you consider milling down the spring detail on the original kit seat back and then adding the PE springs, rather than scratchbuilding the whole seatback?

Thanks,
Robert
Thank-you.
No I didn't use the acitate from the Aber set- main reason being I had glued the face plate to the firewall before I started using the Aber set and did not want to risk cataclysmic damage to firewall/dashboard. in retro fitting. ;)

and I guess you could do it that way but I like metal to metal when using PE, as mush as possible, plus I wanted more accuracy. :)

[Tuna]

Wow James.. agree with the others!!.. Coming out awsome.. and I too love that floor.. looks like lot's of boots have been kicking around on that sucka for the last year!

charlie

[Piet Duits]

James,

I guess you were too fast.
Look at what Part just released: http://jadarhobby.home.pl/bigimages/part/p35092.jpg

Nice set, for us not as well skilled peoples :)

[James Tainton]

I'll have to get one of those ... one of these days ;)
the seat is now primed and base coated out.
http://members.shaw.ca/nashorn/PA/AFV/primedseat.jpg

http://members.shaw.ca/nashorn/PA/AFV/basecoated-seat.jpg

[James Tainton]

looking at some references of the breechblock I added two small metal (Realmetal) rectangles.
http://members.shaw.ca/nashorn/PA/AFV/breechblockdetails.jpg
also installed smaller spare vision blocks.
http://members.shaw.ca/nashorn/PA/AFV/visionaberinstalled.jpg

the seat pad is installed in the frame and is painted out somewhat.
http://members.shaw.ca/nashorn/PA/AFV/paintedseatpad.jpg

[James Tainton]

Hi- I need to get help from anyone out there with radio wiring info on the 215/9 Ausf. D. photos/drawings showing the routing of the wires from the radio to the antena, transformer and battery. Any shots showing the transformer in place. Thanks.

[sbuss]

sbuss to the rescue ;)

i can show you a drawing from a german book on radio equipment in armored vehicles, from the manufacturer itself, Telefunken.

The book is called "Die deutschen Funknachrichtenanlagen bis 1945, Band 3 Funk- und Bordsprechanlagen in Panzerfahrzeugen" from Hans-Joachim Ellissen, awfully expensive, completely in german and worth every single cent. Full of drawings, explanations etc.

Sometimes it's advantageous being german...

Stefan


http://www.arcor.de/palb/alben/85/927585/1280_3464363763653039.jpg

[Piet Duits]

Stefan,

I tried to buy this book once too on Ebay, but the price went way too high for me.
I was wondering if there are any shots or info on the Fu 4, Fu 5 and Fu 8 radioset, or the Fu 5 and Fu 8 combo, as found in the Sd.Kfz. 250/3 and Sd.Kfz. 251/3.
Any SPW-related radioset info is well appreciated as well ;)
(I can try, can't I)

[James Tainton]

Originally posted by sbuss@Dec 2 2004, 01:11 AM
sbuss to the rescue ;)

i can show you a drawing from a german book on radio equipment in armored vehicles, from the manufacturer itself, Telefunken.

The book is called "Die deutschen Funknachrichtenanlagen bis 1945, Band 3 Funk- und Bordsprechanlagen in Panzerfahrzeugen" from Hans-Joachim Ellissen, awfully expensive, completely in german and worth every single cent. Full of drawings, explanations etc.

Sometimes it's advantageous being german...

Stefan

Okay thanks that helps in a schematic sense. (lucky you to have that book) ;)
But I wonder if tha tN&B book has any actual photos of the set up. I almost have an idea of how it goes but I need to see photos to confirm.Vielen Dank!

the last bits of the radio . The acetate film from the Aber kit are on and the last knobs are layed out prior to painting.
http://members.shaw.ca/nashorn/PA/AFV/lastpartofradio.jpg

[James Tainton]

back of the driver's seat-need to paint out the leather straps yet. It'll be nice to glue this in soon. :lol:
http://members.shaw.ca/nashorn/PA/AFV/seatback.jpg

[Piet Duits]

James,

I do have some very nice pictures.
First, a very important manual, written in the old style german language (I wonder if you can read it), called Merkblatt 47a/33.
Secondly, I am now uploading an even more important manual on the radio equipment as found in the Panzergrenadier-Regiment (gp.), (mot.) and the Grenadier-Regiment (mot.).

In this manual (H.Dv. 298/9), you will find the radioset attached in the vehicles, with all cables etc.
Very interesting!

check my personal space for more info: www.okem.nl/~s.p.duits

http://www.okem.nl/~s.p.duits/H.Dv.%20298-9/100_0333.jpg

[James Tainton]

Oh that is very nice Piet! Too bad you don't have a nice big clear picture for me. :) ;) http://www.publispain.com/gifs_animados/radio/radio.gif
http://pages.prodigy.net/kg0zz/clipart/images/ham/animated/tow_003.gif

[James Tainton]

Originally posted by sbuss@Dec 2 2004, 01:11 AM


http://www.arcor.de/palb/alben/85/927585/1280_3464363763653039.jpg
Where would the two antenna junction boxes go in the vehicle that are on this drawing?

[Piet Duits]

James,

Actually, I do.
See the update on my personal webspace.

[James Tainton]

Piet- I did go to the link and saw the pic you have up
http://members.shaw.ca/nashorn/PA/AFV/100_0333.jpg
- what I meant was I could really make use of a nice flat scan of the photo only... but I know you don't have a scanner. Or maybe I misunderstand? This helps anyways. It looks to be the early incarnation of the /9? ;)

[Piet Duits]

James,

I took the pictures in an archive, so this is all that I have. I did try to make sharper pics of the photos in the manual, as you can see on the 2 .jpg files I also uploaded.
The vehicle is indeed an earlier 251/9. However, the radio equipment was the same as in later variants.


Piet

PS: in the manual are many more very rare pics, like the interior of the SdKfz 251/11. Or the equipment of softskin trucks.

[James Tainton]

I love this detective/research stuff :lol:
http://members.shaw.ca/nashorn/PA/AFV/wasistdas-.jpg

[Piet Duits]

I guess that's a protected Antennenzuleitung (to quote the name provided in the sketch from Stefan)

[James Tainton]

I don't know -it seems like some kind of clamp/mount that is for the antenna?
Antennenzuleitung -isn't that more about the two little boxes that are between the radio and the antenna?
http://members.shaw.ca/nashorn/PA/AFV/junctionboxdrawing.jpg
from the Achtung Panzer #7 about the Panzer I & II

[sbuss]

Hm,

i shouldn't have been so lazy and better translated the descriptions...

Antennenzuleitung actually means power cable in english, so James guessed correctly. The two "black boxes" on the drawing seem to be some kind of armoured protection for the cable. On of these is located directly in the path of the Verdeckspriegel (tarpaulin holder), or better directly between the holder and the armoured liner. You can see it in your picture a little below the "was ist das"-arrow. I have no idea where the second one is placed...

My guess is that these devices are just meant to protect the cable from damage at hevily used areas.

@Piet: Yes there are shots of the interior of Schützenpanzerwagen with command equipment in the Funkanlagen-book. ;)

edit: Forgot something. Merde! The N&B sadly contains no pictures of the real setup, which is a pity. We all have to guess in the end.

[Markus]

I´m not really sure and can just guess, but i could imagine that these boxes are fuse boxes.

[James Tainton]

started work on the axes stowed on the fenders.
http://members.shaw.ca/nashorn/PA/AFV/axes.jpg

[sbuss]

Markus, i don't think these can be fuse boxes.
Why should there be two fuses for the antenna, but zero for the radio itself? Shouldn't there be something fuse-like between radio/transformer and the battery?

In any case i am just plainly guessing as well ;)

Stefan

[James Tainton]

replaced the kits rear MG mount with brass rod and some Aber parts, plus the top knob of the kit part was scavenged. This all sits in a doughnut of Evergreen rod. drilled out for the thicker post rod.
http://members.shaw.ca/nashorn/PA/AFV/backmgmount.jpg

made a speaker for the radio unit utilizing the Aber speaker face glued on to a shaped cylinder taken from an axle of a Italeri Panther wheel.
http://members.shaw.ca/nashorn/PA/AFV/speaker.jpg

[James Tainton]

couple of big things done today- first I finally was able to install the radio into its frame and mount. Not perfect but next time it'll be real nice! ? ;)

http://members.shaw.ca/nashorn/PA/AFV/radioinstalled1.jpg

http://members.shaw.ca/nashorn/PA/AFV/radioinstalled2.jpg
I'm trying to make a transformer box for the radio set-up. The DML kit does include one- funnily the AFV kit does not.
http://members.shaw.ca/nashorn/PA/AFV/radioinstalledwarrows.jpg

[James Tainton]

the other trying and patience testing task tackled today was the installation of the front vision Klappe.
http://members.shaw.ca/nashorn/PA/AFV/veiwport1.jpg

http://members.shaw.ca/nashorn/PA/AFV/viewport2.jpg

[James Tainton]

any one know what was usually stowed in these side bins of a 251/9?
http://members.shaw.ca/nashorn/PA/AFV/stowage-.jpg

[sbuss]

my guess is personal equipment of any kind - gas mask and food containers, puches etc.

but, as usual, this is just a guess.

Stefan

[Piet Duits]

Originally posted by sbuss@Dec 2 2004, 08:15 AM
@Piet: Yes there are shots of the interior of Schützenpanzerwagen with command equipment in the Funkanlagen-book. ;)

Stefan,

Can you give me some more info on what's exactly in this book?
For instance, how the cables should have been connected to each radio and receiver, etc. etc.
In other words, all the things you need to know about these sets. Or perhaps better pictures of these sets as in the H.Dv. I uploaded.

Thanks in advance,


Piet

[James Tainton]

for those who don't know this site
http://www.laud.no/la6nca/radio/german/index.htm
it has excellent reference

[James Tainton]

got the driver's vision port done- man! what a hassle- but it is in. all this and its so far back no one will ever see it. but I learn a lot about the actual mechanisms of the real SPWs by doing this detail work. I meant to take shots to compare this Aber with the kit provided parts but I'll add them tomorrow.
http://members.shaw.ca/nashorn/PA/AFV/driversport.jpg

[James Tainton]

and the seat was finished off and added. The MP40 got a strap (with a buckle and everything :) ), and the spare ammo leather straps were painted as well. The amazingly close and revealing photos show a fair amount of dust on my paint job. This is not really visible to the naked eye but it does embarrass me. Next time I will have better dust dicipline and wash things before painting as well.
http://members.shaw.ca/nashorn/PA/AFV/seatinstalled.jpg

http://members.shaw.ca/nashorn/PA/AFV/seatinstalled2.jpg

http://members.shaw.ca/nashorn/PA/AFV/seatinstalled3.jpg

[James Tainton]

ist hier der seitliche bildende und dann angebrachte Anblickblockhalter.
die silberne Sache ist ein Transformator, den ich vom ABER Photoetch bildete, das auf Panzer Radiosätzen eingestellt wurde (for reference only)
http://members.shaw.ca/nashorn/PA/AFV/sideports.jpg

mit Glas
http://members.shaw.ca/nashorn/PA/AFV/sideportmitglas.jpg

eingebaut
http://members.shaw.ca/nashorn/PA/AFV/sideportinstalled.jpg

[Markus]

Very nice work James!!

Only your german could improve a bit more :lol: ;)

[James Tainton]

I shaved off (ich rasierte weg) the small things up front that were used to loop wire through to stow things on the front- the kit ones are solid -so bildete ich replacements from scrap metal bits.
http://members.shaw.ca/nashorn/PA/AFV/frontloops.jpg

http://members.shaw.ca/nashorn/PA/AFV/frontloops2.jpg

http://members.shaw.ca/nashorn/PA/AFV/frontloops3.jpg

http://members.shaw.ca/nashorn/PA/AFV/frontloops4.jpg

I have to add a couple off rivets still.

[James Tainton]

Originally posted by Markus@Dec 7 2004, 04:19 AM
Very nice work James!!

Only your german could improve a bit more :lol: ;)
Ich weiß. Maybe you can help and give me the right way to say this?

[James Tainton]

next I wanted to make the clasps that will hold in a few tools hier und dort.
first cut off the frets with a scalpel. then using my hold and fold as a vice I clean off any attachemnt nibs with a file. then put together.
wie sage ich auf Deutsch?

http://members.shaw.ca/nashorn/PA/AFV/clasp.jpg

http://members.shaw.ca/nashorn/PA/AFV/clasp2.jpg

http://members.shaw.ca/nashorn/PA/AFV/clasp3.jpg

[sbuss]

Originally posted by panzerfaust@Dec 7 2004, 06:45 AM
next I wanted to make the clasps that will hold in a few tools hier und dort.
first cut off the frets with a scalpel. then using my hold and fold as a vice I clean off any attachemnt nibs with a file. then put together.
wie sage ich auf Deutsch?


sbuss to the rescue, again:

Als nächstes wollte ich die Klammern fertigen, die einige Werkzeuge here and there halten werden ( ;) ).
Als erstes trennte ich die Kleinteile mit einem Skalpell ab, danch entfernte ich alle reste mit einer Feile, wobei ich mein Hold&Fold-Set als Halterung benutzte.
Danach setzte ich die Teile zusammen.

Stefan

My usual question: The color you used for the strap on the MP40, what is it?

[Markus]

Hey James,
no problem, a honour for me to help you :).

From this page up to down:
ist hier der seitliche bildende und dann angebrachte Anblickblockhalter.
die silberne Sache ist ein Transformator, den ich vom ABER Photoetch bildete, das auf Panzer Radiosätzen eingestellt wurde (for reference only)


Hier ist der seitliche Sichtblock zusammengebaut und dann angebracht.
Das silberne Teil ist ein Transformator den ich aus ABER Fotoätzteilen aus einem Set für Panzer-Funkgeräte zusammenbaute (nur als Refferenz).

I shaved off (ich rasierte weg) the small things up front that were used to loop wire through to stow things on the front- the kit ones are solid -so bildete ich replacements from scrap metal bits.


Ich entfernte die kleinen Teile, die dazu dienen Draht durch sie durchzuziehen um Ausrüstung am Bug zu befestigen. Die Teile des Bausatzes sind massiv gegossen, also stellte ich eigene Teile aus überflüssigem Metall her.

The last one is perfectly translated from Stefan :).

And one question from me:
The stripes inside the Ammo Pouch for the MP40, aren´t these the magazines and should be painted in Gunmetal (i did this on my 250s and 251s and now im curious if it´s right).

Keep it up!

[James Tainton]

aufrichtiger Dank. Die Farbe ist just a braun I have that is a paint used to colour animation cells (acetate) It is good for illustating too. I just used a brown that I thought fit. Ich lernen Deutsche aber langsam.
the first thing I used a clasp was to store the tarp staps/strips that were used to tent the tarp out.
Iwasn't totally sure where in the 251/9 they were stowed but on the 251/1 -the right upper side is where they went. I had to scratch make the two end pieces that the straps sit in- a bit big but eeghh... ;)

http://members.shaw.ca/nashorn/PA/AFV/tarpstrip.jpg

http://members.shaw.ca/nashorn/PA/AFV/tarpstaps2.jpg

[James Tainton]

Originally posted by Markus@Dec 7 2004, 05:33 AM

And one question from me:
The stripes inside the Ammo Pouch for the MP40, aren´t these the magazines and should be painted in Gunmetal (i did this on my 250s and 251s and now im curious if it´s right).


thanks for the translations- I will study them- maybe you can translate other stuff a little so I can learn as I go ;)
The bag- I too did paint those inner strips metal colours- but after flipping thru that book of colour fotos I have, I noticed this, and it made sense then to me to paint the whole thing field grey. The sculpting on these bags should be less stiff perhaps- they look too solid-when in fact they are canvas.
http://members.shaw.ca/nashorn/PA/AFV/ammocolour.jpg

[sbuss]

The conversion kit from MR-Modellbau i use for my Kanonenwagen has the tarpaulin holder stored on the left upper side. This follows pictures from the Ft. Knox vehicle.

But in the end: i don't care if the holder is attached to the left or to the right. As with fire extinguisher brackets - you can install them whereever you want, left or right, one or two.

everything seems to be possible.

Regarding the ammo bag: Any chance that this may have been made from leather? (I have painted this extensively now and would hate to start again...)

Stefan

[Markus]

Cheers for the pic and explaining it to me, i really appreciate it!
Danke für das Bild und die Erklärung, ich weiß es zu würdigen!

maybe you can translate other stuff a little so I can learn as I go*

Anytime mate, no problem!


aufrichtiger Dank. Die Farbe ist just a braun I have that is a paint used to colour animation cells (acetate) It is good for illustating too. I just used a brown that I thought fit. Ich lernen Deutsche aber langsam.
the first thing I used a clasp was to store the tarp staps/strips that were used to tent the tarp out.
Iwasn't totally sure where in the 251/9 they were stowed but on the 251/1 -the right upper side is where they went. I had to scratch make the two end pieces that the straps sit in- a bit big but eeghh...*


Aufrichtiger Dank.
Die Farbe ist einfach ein Braun das ich hierhabe. Es ist eine Farbe die dazu benutzt wird auf Acetat zu malen (don´t really know what animation cells are, my guess is that those are these sheets that cartoon painter use?).
Es ist auch gut zum illustrieren. Ein braun von dem ich dachte dass es passen würde. Ich lerne Deutsch, aber langsam... (will get better ;) ).
Das erste an dem ich eine der Klammern verwendete waren die Metallstreifen die dazu dienten die Plane auf dem Fahrzeug aufzuspannen.
Ich war mir nicht sicher wo diese im 251/9 verstaut waren, also brachte ich sie an der oberen, rechten Bordwand an.
Ich mußte die beiden Endstücke, in denen die Streifen sitzen, scratchen. Ein bischen groß, aber eeghh... :lol:

thanks for the translations- I will study them- maybe you can translate other stuff a little so I can learn as I go*
The bag- I too did paint those inner strips metal colours- but after flipping thru that book of colour fotos I have, I noticed this, and it made sense then to me to paint the whole thing field grey. The sculpting on these bags should be less stiff perhaps- tey look too solid-when in fact the are canvas.


Danke für die Übersetzungen, ich werde sie studieren - vielleicht kannst Du mir noch andere Dinge übersetzen, so daß ich lernen kann.
Die Tasche- Ich habe die inneren Streifen auch mit Metallfarben bemalt- aber nachdem ich durch ein Buch geblättert habe, welches ich besitze, bemerkte ich das, und das macht für mich durchaus Sinn das gesamte Teil feldgrau zu bemalen.
Die Details an der Tasche sollten vielleicht etwas weniger steif wirken- wenn sie in der Realität aus Stoff bestehen.


Stefan,
maybe i can help you out too.
The only Ammobags for MP40 made from leather i know were manufactured Pre-War, so i would go for canvas ones.

[James Tainton]

another example- don't you hate that- live and learn- I've done a lot of that on this build :lol:
http://members.shaw.ca/panzerfaust/bag.jpg

[James Tainton]

Originally posted by sbuss@Dec 7 2004, 05:58 AM
The conversion kit from MR-Modellbau i use for my Kanonenwagen has the tarpaulin holder stored on the left upper side. This follows pictures from the Ft. Knox vehicle.

But in the end: i don't care if the holder is attached to the left or to the right. As with fire extinguisher brackets - you can install them whereever you want, left or right, one or two.

everything seems to be possible.

Regarding the ammo bag: Any chance that this may have been made from leather? (I have painted this extensively now and would hate to start again...)

Stefan
there ain't too much space over on the left hand side what with the radio and all. Hmmm...

[sbuss]

Danke, Markus.
Thank you, James.

[James Tainton]

I mounted the seat armour up on the wall
http://members.shaw.ca/nashorn/PA/AFV/seatarmourmounted.jpg

The front visior had always bugged me- I don't think the way I had cleaned that out and the way the Klape sat just didn't look right. So I filled in the surround of the old one with gel CA and then sanded it flat and glued on a scavenged replacement. (after opening up the slit). This all looks better now- I did a weld seam to bring that up a bit as well- Ihope it looks okay under paint.
:(

http://members.shaw.ca/nashorn/PA/AFV/frontvisorandweld.jpg

[James Tainton]

I replaced the kits' rain covers for the vison ports as well.('nother shot of the fabulous transformer from the Aber radio set)
http://members.shaw.ca/nashorn/PA/AFV/windshielswiper.jpg

http://members.shaw.ca/nashorn/PA/AFV/windshielswiper2.jpg

[James Tainton]

added the clasp that holds the black-out cover on the Boshe light
http://members.shaw.ca/nashorn/PA/AFV/boshelightclamps.jpg
periscope recieved a lens treatment whereby I used a small drill bit backwards to push though some Realmetal film to get tiny cirlces and placed them in the drilled out spots, then coated with Future.
http://members.shaw.ca/nashorn/PA/AFV/gunsight.jpg

some more sneak shots of that transformer ;)
http://members.shaw.ca/nashorn/PA/AFV/tranformerpage.jpg

http://members.shaw.ca/nashorn/PA/AFV/tranformera.jpg

http://members.shaw.ca/nashorn/PA/AFV/trasformer2.jpg

http://members.shaw.ca/nashorn/PA/AFV/transinstruc.jpg

I won't be using this on this build- it is a EUa for the Fu2 and Fu 5 tank radio sets- it has one outlet on both ends
I need to scratch up a SEUa which has two outlets on one side.
I made one -and while not pefect I like it.
http://members.shaw.ca/nashorn/PA/AFV/SEUa1.jpg

the square bit is a leather pad that was mounted I believe on the back of the shell basket frame directly behind the breech.

[James Tainton]

things to be painted
http://members.shaw.ca/nashorn/PA/AFV/partspaints.jpg

made up the axe fender mounts ect.
http://members.shaw.ca/nashorn/PA/AFV/axemounting.jpg

and filled in a couple of sink marks at the back that always bugged me. And added the "T" door handle made of stretched sprue.
http://members.shaw.ca/nashorn/PA/AFV/Tdoor.jpg

[James Tainton]

http://members.shaw.ca/nashorn/PA/AFV/longshotback.jpg

added antenna mount

[James Tainton]

sbuss Wie viele raingaurd things is in your MB set? I'm thinking cause there was only one forward vision port on the drivers side in this vehicle only one would be needed, not the two usually found.
http://members.shaw.ca/nashorn/PA/AFV/partspaints.jpg

[sbuss]

James,

the number is zero.

MB advices the happy modeller to use the parts from Tamiya... :(

edit: one thing i forgot: the transformer is included in the MB set... :lol:

[James Tainton]

any chance to get a shot of the radio set up and transformer of the MB kit? ;)

[sbuss]

James, as a teaser i have attached this picture.
http://www.arcor.de/palb/alben/85/927585/1024_3635623165336361.jpg

I may have the original picture at home, which ist 1280*1024, and will have a look this evening.

edit:
the other picture is for Piet, who had asked for shots from radio versions of the 251.
http://www.arcor.de/palb/alben/85/927585/1024_3563643033616464.jpg

Piet, is this what you wanted?

[James Tainton]

hey that helps.

[Piet Duits]

Stefan,

Yep, correct. I am very curious about the fitting of the radio's. It seems there were several types used.
For instance, if you compare the radioset from Dragon's SdKfz 251/6 with the SdKfz 251/3-IV "Rosi" from Part (based upon the vehicle with the same name found in a river in Poland), then you will see what I mean.

Oh well, perhaps we have to wait for a while before either AFV-Club or Dragon will announce a /3 version (Dragon is still improving their 251-series. Check their SdKfz 251/21 at http://www.dragonmodelsltd.com/html/6217.htm )

Thanks for the images,


Piet

[sbuss]

Piet,

i think it's quite obvious that different types of radio vehicles were used - you can see this at "Rosi"s designation - 251/3-IV, meaning fourth variant of the 251/3 basic mount, all of them having different radio sets for different jobs to fulfill.

Stefan

[Piet Duits]

Stefan,

I think you misunderstand me.
I don't mean the actual Gerätausstattung but the bodywork where the radio's are in (I don't know how to call that) :(

Piet

[sbuss]

The arrangemants of frames for the radios? do you mean these?

[Piet Duits]

Stefan,

:) Indeed, the frames!
Sometimes I forget even the most simple words....
:)

[James Tainton]

Apparently the paint schemes in the instructions of both the AFV Club and DML 251/9 D are wrong- they say these 814, 815 vehicles are from the 20th Panzer Division. Someone has told me that no-the symbols of these two Panzer Divisions was similar that is, the 20 and the 6th PD. The arrow is vertical on the 20PD emblem and tilted as in the kits decal sheet to the left, whisch is for the 6th Panzer Division. Anyone have any more info?

[sbuss]

James,

the guys at archerfransfers are well known for the quality of their research.
either you contact them or wait until this afternoon, when i am back home to have a look at the set of divisionmarkings they provided - for both 6th and 20th PzDiv.
I will look into my Nuts&Bolts as well, where 814 and 815 are pictured.

i just had a quick look at Feldgrau.com and the two symbols are not even bnear to each other. To compare yourself:
6th PzDiv (http://http://www.feldgrau.com/PzDiv.php?ID=6)
20th PzDiv (http://www.feldgrau.com/PzDiv.php?ID=20)

Stefan

edited to include the links.

[James Tainton]

hmm interesting..
I got this new info from a post I made at ML
http://www.network54.com/Forum/thread?foru...geid=1102639224 (http://www.network54.com/Forum/thread?forumid=47207&messageid=1102639224)
(BTW the 6th PD link didn't work- had to change the number in the URL)
251/9 Ausf.D
Roger Griffiths
This is not 20PD December 10 2004, 3:43 AM
To my eternal shame, I thought this was 20PD until recently, when corrected.
20PD divisional symbol was very similar but the arrow vertical. This is 6PD which used this symbol post Kursk to End.
Does'nt help that armoured PG Battalions in 6 and 20PD's were both IInd.
20PD 1Mar45 II/PGR59 1 SPW 251/9 each in 5 to 7 Coys. and 5 in 8 Coy.
6PD 1Mar