Dragon's new "Upgrade and Conversion Kit"

[strtgng]

Hmm - new marketing angle from Dragon... I like the PE shields!

http://www.dmlforum.com/inside_story/3838.jpg

[RC_Hill]

:o :o :o

[Tiger502]

I think it’s a great idea. You almost always end up buying PE sets anyway. This way you don’t have to wait for the aftermarket manufactures to make one.

[Flak]

WOW :o All-In-One kit... ;)

[brokeneagle]

:) You gotta love this hobby at the moment - we sure were born at the right time! :lol:

[James Tainton]

I think it's just another way that Dragon wants to make money hand over fist. The recent news of re-boxed older kits with a few improved parts and the 20% price increase that was announced of late for their kits being a couple of other examples that it's all about greed. Besides, I don't find their PE and metal update parts that have come with their kits to be all that great. I don't like Lion Roar PE. I'll wait for the Aber sets to come out - they will be worth it to me.

[Evan August]

From my understanding, Dragon has decided to release a basic 234, and then an update set with the goodies. Correct? I can't help but think it's kind of a rip off, considering they can put all that stuff with the kit, in the case of their Tigers and such. I'd agree with James, it is pretty greedy. Really- buy an extra kit for your engine grilles and gunshield, when they have been included with other kits in the past? :( :angry:

[brokeneagle]

As far as 'price up ' goes I don't think they have a choice, as all their "work for a bowl of rice and party flag " labour is starting to appreciate what it's all about and have been pushing wages up by bailng and working for some other mob up the road that will offer 2 bowls. :lol: I am just glad that we are able to have this stuff in the first place, as well as all the projects in plastic that would never have happened without China. I do feel though that the tide is turning and our cheap and wonderful kits will be short lived as China finds it's feet in free industry.
Still, they will probably never be as expensive as the Japs and the West because of manpower. As long as they offer more quality/quantity for the same price [ or less] than the others, I'll be happy:)

[James Tainton]

I think because Dragon has pretty much destroyed all the major competition, now they can charge whatever they like. These guys are in it for the money.
I doubt the workers are getting much of the profit.

[Larry Bates]

James,

I gotta side with you on this one. Dragon has been going all out and all on there kits, but, now to sell half assed attempts at super detailing sets to go with reboxed older molds, well I didn't go for it when Tamiya tried it . I'm damn sure not going for it now either. :lol:

Larry

[RC_Hill]

Originally posted by panzerfaust@Mar 11 2006, 10:49 PM
I think because Dragon has pretty much destroyed all the major competition, now they can charge whatever they like. These guys are in it for the money.
I doubt the workers are getting much of the profit.
I agree that they have destroyed their competition...and of course, why else would they do it? It's always for the money. Companies don't really go into business to make people happy...well, they do, but for themselves! lol
(did you guys know that the head of the Salvation Army, here in the US, makes $600,000/year!...pretty good for a charity)
This is a simple case of the 'golden rule' in effect (IE the guy with the gold makes the rules), so DML will start to cost more....and true, in a country such as that, the odds of the workers receiving good money is probably not going to happen, but it depends on how you look at it...from an Economic stand point, which is often cold in nature, at least they are doing something to earn money, instead of starving to death, or whatever...they are being productive...Also, comparing stardards of living to one country, like Canada or the US, versus like one of the many -istans in Asia is impossible....things can only improve for them, though the cost will inevitably be our own way of life, as we continue to relay on cheap foreign labor to keep our prices 'low', meaning a decrease in our lifestyles...a very long and painful decrease...

Also, speaking of labor and such, in Hong Kong there is a minimum wage, but it only applies to foreign workers...rather interesting :)

(sorry for the long rant fellows...hope it's not too far off topic)

[Sheeds]

Look up "The Biz" in the dictionary......and it'll show you this kit.

I think the DML Tigers have been underpriced, we pay 50 AU for it here, the Tamiya (dare I say equivalent) offering goes for nearly 80AU, then you have to shell out for Aber or Tamiya etch brass screens etc.

I'll wager these 234 series of kits come out at a very reasonable price, and if I can buy the extra etch from them rather than wait for Aber, then great.

That said, I was always sceptical of the Tamiya "releases" which were only old Italeri kits as well as Tamiya's reissuing of 1970 vintage kits with a new hat at 2006 prices. If DML was to do this with say their Grille for example, then I would have to agree they're being greedy.

If I may be even more cynical, I'd suggest Tamiya released their 1/48 scale armour so as to recoup some of their losses to the newer kids excellent 1/35th kits. Maybe because DML has raised the bar so high in quality and extras (not including their shite 251D series of kits) that when I opened my Tamiya 1/48th scale Panther the first thing I said was "Where the F@%k is the etch engine screens??" ;)

It is also disappointing that the same errors found in their 1/35 scale kits were down sized. There are no corrections to the Panther at all.......yet DML release their Panzer 4 and then correct the errors modellers cry about within the first few months, only to be hammered by the self appointed experts for correcting kits while the original inaccurate kit is still on the model shop shelves.

To sum my rant up, people seem to have a tall poppy syndrome against DML and no matter what DML do, they cant win.

Willy.

[RC_Hill]

Originally posted by Willy Naylor@Mar 12 2006, 12:01 AM
I think the DML Tigers have been underpriced, we pay 50 AU for it here, the Tamiya (dare I say equivalent) offering goes for nearly 80AU, then you have to shell out for Aber or Tamiya etch brass screens etc.

I'll wager these 234 series of kits come out at a very reasonable price, and if I can buy the extra etch from them rather than wait for Aber, then great.

That said, I was always sceptical of the Tamiya "releases" which were only old Italeri kits as well as Tamiya's reissuing of 1970 vintage kits with a new hat at 2006 prices. If DML was to do this with say their Grille for example, then I would have to agree they're being greedy.

If I may be even more cynical, I'd suggest Tamiya released their 1/48 scale armour so as to recoup some of their losses to the newer kids excellent 1/35th kits. Maybe because DML has raised the bar so high in quality and extras (not including their shite 251D series of kits) that when I opened my Tamiya 1/48th scale Panther the first thing I said was "Where the F@%k is the etch engine screens??" ;)

It is also disappointing that the same errors found in their 1/35 scale kits were down sized. There are no corrections to the Panther at all.......yet DML release their Panzer 4 and then correct the errors modellers cry about within the first few months, only to be hammered by the self appointed experts for correcting kits while the original inaccurate kit is still on the model shop shelves.

To sum my rant up, people seem to have a tall poppy syndrome against DML and no matter what DML do, they cant win.

Willy.
Yeah, that's what I don't get...you pay more for a kit that's just so-so compared to what DML is offering...you'd think that something would be done to make their stuff fly off the shelves...(d'oh, that's right, they made those super expensive kits with all metal crap that'll cost ya at least $150US)...so, to be more competative, Tamiya down-sizes to 1/48th scale...Honestly, I have to say, I like Tamiya, but it's hard to change scales when you have so much (in)vested interest in 1/35th scale...such a change of scale is something I am not willing to do...It'll be interesing that if somehow Dragon re-does/does everything in German (their bread-and-butter) that can be done, in 1/35th scale, what else would be next? 1/48th? lol

[James Tainton]

Originally posted by Willy Naylor@Mar 12 2006, 12:01 AM


I think the DML Tigers have been underpriced, we pay 50 AU for it here, the Tamiya (dare I say equivalent) offering goes for nearly 80AU, then you have to shell out for Aber or Tamiya etch brass screens etc.

I'll wager these 234 series of kits come out at a very reasonable price, and if I can buy the extra etch from them rather than wait for Aber, then great.

You may be right about the under pricing, but that was done perhaps to help slaughter the competition. Now that the majority of that mission is successful it's time to rake in the winnings.

As for Dragon's extra bits... most of their photo etch/metal barrel upgrades are not really very good in the first place, in my opinion. I would rather they sold the basic kit, (without all the gimmicky do dads that are pretty much useless from my point of view), at an even cheaper price. Then when the Aber stuff comes out the cost maybe somewhat more even. I'm glad maybe the next generation of kits may not have all this extra stuff. Then I won't have to feel so bad about not using the "upgrades" that are included.

Also trust me, I do appreciate Dragon's efforts to give us nice kits -but they do often take shortcuts to get their product out there, soaking a a good share of the buying publics money before the smaller companies can get their kits to market.
I do think that their new Panzer IV kit is much easier to build than the Tristar version. I was really hoping that Tristar's kit would be okay but from my experience, the Dragon one is the much better kit.

[amba]

Somehow this reminds me of another company in a different industry, with all these Updates, new versions etc. ;)

Oh by the way, is Bill Gates a shareholder of DML :lol: :lol:

-Ambjoern

[Sheeds]

Aaron.

I knew I had seen this sort of drop and run thing you've done before. Can I ask if you have anything to do with DML? Also, I tried to find the forum you took this from, but being I'm not computer savvy I didn't have any luck. Can you please direct me to the site you're getting this from?

http://www.network54.com/Forum/47207/threa...barrel+length.. (http://www.network54.com/Forum/47207/thread/1140613560/Dragon+fights+back+on+Flak+38+barrel+length..).

I also love the last post on that ML thread.....humble pie anyone? ;)

Cheers, Willy.

[Fausto]

Does anyone else think its strange we pay FULL RETAIL (plus shipping) to DML via its Cyberhobby front company, where we used to buy kits at discount from the internet?

Our only weapon against DML excesses is our wallet.

[strtgng]

I knew I had seen this sort of drop and run thing you've done before. Can I ask if you have anything to do with DML? Also, I tried to find the forum you took this from, but being I'm not computer savvy I didn't have any luck. Can you please direct me to the site you're getting this from?


:angry: Drop and run? A little harsh don't you think? I thought the point of a discussion group was to, um, have discussions about stuff. Sorry to disappoint you - no affiliation with DML, just thought the "NEWS" forum would like to see some news. All my images come from Dragon's Armor Club forum. You can sign up and get the news yourself at:

http://www.dragonmodelsltd.com/mdfc/armor-club/

As for my comments on this "Upgrade" tactic - yes, DML clearly has a good marketing department. They are in it for a profit, as any company is. Do I like the "Cyberhobby Limited Edition" approach - I'm rather indifferent. Yes it is a pain to have to pre-order and wait 3-4 months (where's my Panzer IV B?!?), and the kits are more expensive ...but there are plenty of people who will miss out on the limited edition offer and glady bid for one on eBay a few months down the road. I simply order a few extras (which then eliminates shipping costs), sit on them for a few months, and then eBay'em. The proceeds for these sales more than cover the initial investment, and the kit I keep for myself ends up costing me nothing (I have a "free" DAK Tiger I sitting on my shelf). The buyer on eBay is always thrilled - as they really want the kit. Everyone ends up happy. :)

You aren't going to do any good by boycotting Dragon because of price increases or hokey marketing ploys - that just gets them less sales, which means less profits, which means they will shift resources to a more profitable area (they have to be eyeing Tamiya's R/C car market share). If they shift resources, then we will have less cool models. I don't bother fighting Dragon on this one, I just find solutions which make the marketing and pricing irrelevant to me.

[Larry Bates]

Well, I don't blame Dragon for doing "business", I just don't like some marketing ploys that try to get the "market " to part with their dollars, by reboxing half assed attempts as something "new" or "better" when it is not.

Also, I really need to get some of these new models, as I haven't bought any new kits since DML came out with their initial Tiger I :(


Larry

[Sheeds]

Yeah, you're right Aaron...it was a bit harsh of me. Sorry mate, no hard feelings I hope.

Thanks for the link. :thumb:

Willy.

[strtgng]

Willy - no hard feelings, I probably just took it wrong.

The new episode of Sopranos was on last night - everything is good now! ;)

[strtgng]

More info - and wow! ...that is more expensive than I thought it would be! I'll still buy a few though. ;)

http://www.cyber-hobby.com/html/6221+3828.htm

But it looks like you CAN buy the upgrade by itself - good news...

http://www.cyber-hobby.com/html/3828.htm

[MrPlasticmodel]

Hi all
I just had a message from MDFC , because I several months ago asked one of the staff members a question on If it was possible to buy spare parts direct from Dragon, he replied to me that the extra parts for the sd kfz 234/4 was awailable just as Aaron told us, the interesting thing is that this is the first of a series of extra parts, so in future it seem that Dragon will be manufacturing both "standard" kits and extra parts :)

[RC_Hill]

Originally posted by MrPlasticmodel@Mar 13 2006, 03:45 PM
So in future it seem that Dragon will be manufacturing both "standard" kits and extra parts :)
That's actually nice to hear :)

[brokeneagle]

;) let's not loose site of the fact that the kits are being produced. Go back tens years or more and take a look at what you got for your money and what was available. Everyone wanted this or that to come out...........well here we are and we seem to still be unhappy. You get what you pay for and we are still getting this stuff cheap compared to the past. Just my way of looking at past and present - don't take it for granted or it will disappear. :( [We are probably one of the last generations to build models in relatively large numbers.and so influence what gets produced]

[Larry Bates]

WEll Ian,

You are probably right sir. I really need to order a couple new kits. :lol: :o

Okay, correct me if I'[m wrong but the upgrade kit on the first link is 9.99 USD, and on the second link it is 16.99 USD. Yah....... On TOP OF 47.99?

ahhhhhhhh.

L

[sam_dwyer]

Any idea on a release date yet?

Mic Bradshaw just pre-ordered one for Willy and I, hope the wait isnt too long!

Sam

PS Thanks Mic!