Metal under coat

[James Tainton]

We were using this product at work the other day to base out some metal fence and I thought I might try it on some brass some day..The company that makes it is RM Diamont.
It's called DE18 Undercoat which you mix 1 part DA18 activator. It cleans up with methyl alcohol or isopropyl alcohol. It has ketones so it isn't all that good for you...
http://www.autobodysupply.net/de18.gif

I'm also thinking of testing out some water based DTMs (Direct To Metal) that are out there to see if they can be used for miniatures. ;)

[Sticky]

And what exactly does it do?

[James Tainton]

Originally posted by Sticky@Feb 26 2006, 11:10 AM
And what exactly does it do?
Well it actually bites into the metal to form an excellent substrate for further paint to be applied. I'm not sure if it melts plastic yet :lol:
The reason I am looking at using it is because the so-called self etching primers out there that you get in a spray can really don't seem to really "etch" into the metal. Rather they are merely a sort of plastic coating that goes over the bare metal and allows top coats to be applied. I have found that this is not a permanent condition because the primer seems to break away at the edges with handling of the model. I want to find something that works permanently.
http://www.basfrefinish.com/vta/R-M/DE18.htm

half way down
www.ifsja.org/cgi-bin/ubbcgi/ultimatebb.cgi%3Fubb%3Dprint_topic%3Bf%3D2%3Bt%3D0 24790+DE18+Undercoat&hl=en&gl=ca&ct=clnk&cd=7] (http://64.233.179.104/search?q=cache:hZpGCQ_IfmMJ:[url) this page[/url]

[Sticky]

Interesting, have you tried teh Rustolium products? Or are those the ones you say really don't etch?

[James Tainton]

Originally posted by Sticky@Feb 26 2006, 03:58 PM
Interesting, have you tried teh Rustolium products? Or are those the ones you say really don't etch?
can you be more specific. ;)

[Sticky]

GO HERE (http://www.rustoleum.com/)

[James Tainton]

Well that's not very specific :( There are a lot of products at the web site.
I think that rust paint, compared to the etch primer (DE 18) and DTM I mention are a different thing.I don't think the rust paint actually etches into the surface of the metal.

[brokeneagle]

Hi guys ,
just thought I would throw in a 'curly'. I hear a lot about undercoating on turned barrels and brass and how this helps the paint adhear , but how much of this is really necessary for models. Outdoor metal on houses etc but models in a stable enviroment that don't really get handled after completion? I have used Tamiya Acrylic airbrushed over all my turned barrels and brass for over 10 years now and I don't have one single instance of paint crack, chip or anything.
Is this like the method of washing the plastic kit before use? I have never done that either and have never had a problem with paint going on via the airbrush in 35 years?
Is it just me?

[James Tainton]

The problem that seems to occur is on the edges of some PE. Such as gun shields. Or where maybe some handling will wear off the primer/paint. I had one model that I built and painted- the AFV PAK 40, lowered to a second place in the local show because of this. I just didn't notice it and it cost a first. It's not so much about barrels, more about spots with small surface area where the paint may not have a good foot hold.
The picture below shows the edges I mean. Once the edge gets nicked it can tear and make a more obvious mark. The yellow arrows point to where I mean. The metal pointy bolts that hold the two shield parts together also seemed to get de-nuded with handling. (the shield in this example still has all the paint on it... if I find the motivation I may take one of the edges as they look now.)
http://www.kitpic.com/is.php?i=24607&img=edges.jpg