Panzerwrecks - unusal and interesting bits

[brokeneagle]

:) I picked up Panzerwrecks earlier this year off the net and was really pleased with the quality of this publication. I thought I would post a couple of my favourite shots from it as a discussion point for unusual panzers or interesting photo's that display strange characteristics on German Armour. For those who have not seen this book it should prove interesting.

This first photo is a gem. A perfect dio subject that I am looking into.
April '45 and a MK4 G being rebuilt in some battered garage at Bamberg. This is a Sept. '42 vintage. In the background is a Mk3 also and doesn't the stipped motor in the foreground look great! Outside this complex there were numerous weird and wonderful reworked early Mk3's dug in in a hull down position defending the complex [photo shown in book]. There were various mk 1's and 2's right in front of the garages as well..... what would be to the rear of the tanks in this photo.
http://i26.photobucket.com/albums/c131/3dbattleart/photos/4g.jpg

The other photo that I thought would interest was this shot of a Panther A, shot up near the end at Bad Hersfeld. It has the gun cleaning tube on the rear deck, no rear stowage bins, retrofitted Flammenvernichter at the rear and spare road wheel on the turret side. The massive hole in the side plate is so neat it looks as though it could have been flame cut and the piece of steel used to reinforce a crappy Sherman? Even the dead carkass of a panzer could be useful. The service hatch for the crank also seems to be missing, Engine trouble and blown by the crew?

http://i26.photobucket.com/albums/c131/3dbattleart/photos/panthrmix.jpg

And the final shot is for the lovers of final M.A.N. panthers with the last station steel road wheel. Also note the cupola, no aa ring mount , just a mg post.

http://i26.photobucket.com/albums/c131/3dbattleart/photos/pantherglate.jpg

Have you got any interesting/unusual panzer photo's to share?

[Larry Bates]

Very cool shots Ian. Love the Panther A with flammvericters.

Larry

[mnickolson]

Really cool pictures Ian. You or any one wouldn't happen to have any of a late Stuh 42 with the 10.5 gun by chance they could mail me. I have fould what looks to be 2 in a Panzer Colors III book I have. The one I am looking for is 131.

Mike

Edit: Hmm I posted this in the wrong place. Should have been under Sturmgeschutz 111. Sorry.

[James Tainton]

Originally posted by brokeneagle@Jan 5 2006, 06:04 PM
This first photo is a gem. A perfect dio subject that I am looking into.
April '45 and a MK4 G being rebuilt in some battered garage at Bamberg. This is a Sept. '42 vintage. In the background is a Mk3 also and doesn't the stipped motor in the foreground look great! Outside this complex there were numerous weird and wonderful reworked early Mk3's dug in in a hull down position defending the complex [photo shown in book].

Yeah I liked that one too. Thought it would make a good die-o-rama as well. ;)
http://i26.photobucket.com/albums/c131/3dbattleart/photos/4g.jpg

[brokeneagle]

[/QUOTE]Really cool pictures Ian. You or any one wouldn't happen to have any of a late Stuh 42 with the 10.5 gun by chance they could mail me. I have fould what looks to be 2 in a Panzer Colors III book I have. The one I am looking for is 131.

Mike

Edit: Hmm I posted this in the wrong place. Should have been under Sturmgeschutz 111. Sorry.

Mike, I added some up to the Stug 3 post last night for you but they all got wiped. Start a topic and I can link them from my photo bucket. :)
Would this suit?

[Sheeds]

Mike, I'll post some pics for you tonight. As you know tmy post on Brocken Eagle's Stug III thread went South for some reason.....so I have to redo that anyhow.

Willy.

[mnickolson]

Originally posted by brokeneagle@Jan 5 2006, 11:16 PM
Really cool pictures Ian. You or any one wouldn't happen to have any of a late Stuh 42 with the 10.5 gun by chance they could mail me. I have fould what looks to be 2 in a Panzer Colors III book I have. The one I am looking for is 131.

Mike

Edit: Hmm I posted this in the wrong place. Should have been under Sturmgeschutz 111. Sorry.

Mike, I added some up to the Stug 3 post last night for you but they all got wiped. Start a topic and I can link them from my photo bucket. :)
Would this suit? [/quote]
Thanks. But anyway you could mail them. I don't think they like posting a lot of pictures here like that. That is why they got deleted. :( If you can't that ok and I thank you for the others.

Mike

[James Tainton]

I don't think they like posting a lot of pictures here like that.

You can display 2 or so pics from a book under fair use. You need to give the proper credit. The reason some posts disappeared today is because Gordy is upgrading the site with a new dedicated server. Some posts got lost in the shuffle. I like to see pictures. Post them, the more the merrier.

[brokeneagle]

Originally posted by panzerfaust@Jan 5 2006, 09:14 PM
Yeah I liked that one too. Thought it would make a good die-o-rama as well.* ;)

panzerfaust,
What coloring would you make of this dusty survivor? Its hard to tell through the dust/rubble cover but the base seems to be reasonably dark in places [could just as easily be shadows from the building]. Dark yellow over Olive green, resprayed to the green base order in dec 44?

[Ebbe Bergman]

Hi!
Dont know if its any interest that there is a panzer behind the Pz 4. Perhaps another panzer 4.
Cheers!
Ebbe

[brokeneagle]

Ebbe,
the caption mentions the other panzer as a mk3 - you can tell if you look past the stowage bin and down a bit. There is a low back deck, quite different to the 4. The deck covers seem to be facing forward so it probably is a L,M or N. The caption also says that the engine at the front in the rubble is a HL230 P30 from a panther. ;)

[Ebbe Bergman]

Hi Ian!
Well when you say that I see now. Just took a fast glance at the stowage and assumed that it might be a Pz 4 :(
Looks like few tanks was knocked out but more often abandon due fuel. The Panther looks like it has very little damage or non? Or was it knocked out by another tank?

[brokeneagle]

Since no one else has added any here yet, so I thought I would throw in a few other late war curiosities that I collected.
The caption here states"panther G" . It is apparently in Berlin at the end. The chassis certainly looks like a G but check the cupola - that looks like a D drum cupola to me. I doubt whether they would have retrofitted a D cupola to an A turret so it must be a D turret on a G chassis, in Berlin! Yeah baby!
Panzerwaffe 1945 vol.1 Wydawnictwo no 198
http://i26.photobucket.com/albums/c131/3dbattleart/photos/pantherb.jpg

The next one is a picture that I found tucked up the back of Sturm and Drang no 4 on the Mk4. This photo does not have a caption that I can read but suffice to say it is near the end ...... a late F2 or early G turret [pre March '43] with turret schurzen and an L/48 gun. That's the safe guess, however, take a look at what seem to be the open side hatches to the turret. They look to long to be the short double door type so does this mean it is a E turret, retrofitted with a F2/G cupola and a late G L/48 gun, all strapped on a late J model chassis?
I would love to know what you guys think or if anyone has another picture of this.
Sturm and Drang no 4
http://i26.photobucket.com/albums/c131/3dbattleart/photos/mk4.jpg

For the final pic, a favourite end of days picture. The one at the very end of Tigers in Combat 2, Early production tiger 1 destroyed in the final battle for the Reichstag in front of the Brandenburg gate. Panzer division 'Munchberg' which seemed to be the only armour that stood between the Russians and the Reichstag by this stage.
TIC 2
http://i26.photobucket.com/albums/c131/3dbattleart/photos/berlintiger1.jpg
Then I got Panzerwaffe 1945 vol.1 and found a second picture of this tank from the other side and closer. Plus there is an artist color profile on it in as well. It's missing a few outer road wheels. Looks like a May '43 production model due to the hull side cable arrangement, flat machined drive sprocket hub, two spare track holders [on right side of turret], and post Dec 42 hull side plate exstensions to allow 'U' shaped tow shackels. There is a good chance that this was the last Tiger 1 to see combat!
Panzerwaffe 1945 vol.1 Wydawnictwo no 198
http://i26.photobucket.com/albums/c131/3dbattleart/photos/berlintiger.jpg
The color profiles are always a guessing game but they are great for a starting postion on your paint job.
http://i26.photobucket.com/albums/c131/3dbattleart/photos/btp.jpg

I hope you are finding my post interesting. :)

[Larry Bates]

Great shots Ian,

That Tiger 323 would be an awesome one to do.
I thinkI'll get that book on Panzerwaffe, was just hunting for some more ref's and came across it. I'll have to take some moments and search my HD for some shots.

Larry

[sam_dwyer]

Gday Hilly, great shots!! Specially love the Mk IV hybrid - killer!

THat panther - its a regular cupola, you can see one of the apetures for the episcopes clearly... well least to my eyes its a regular cupola..
http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y82/samd1/crop1.jpg

Keep em comin'!

Sam

[Sticky Fingers]

Nice work brokeneagle. Thanks for posting!

[Sheeds]

Its a standard A cupola.....there's debris on it, which makes it look odd.

Willy.

[brokeneagle]

:) Sammy,
you could be right but what about the rest of the cupola....... looks very straight sided? Maybe its just the old photo, though the rest of the main shot is pretty clear.
http://i26.photobucket.com/albums/c131/3dbattleart/photos/cupola.jpg
In the close up it looks like a mix 3/4 D and 1/4 periscoped. I'm still not sure, plus I'm desperate for it to be a D turret on a G in Berlin :( I want to model this freak[if that is what it is].

Willy, I can't see any debri, though the chances are that my freak just went out the window!
I see what you mean.......
I went back and looked at the main photo, looks as though there is debri on the turret roof in front of the second periscope. Damn it! :(

[Sheeds]

Sorry we werent posting to your thread quick enough Madam. ;)

Heres some shots from a while ago.....hottie 234/4 in Berlin.

http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y181/Sheeds/234-4Berlin1945Rear.jpg

http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y181/Sheeds/3_berlinaug45.jpg

Theres also a zoomed out side view, but I cant locate it......anyone have it stashed away on their HD?

Willy.

[Sheeds]

Also your Majesty......

Nordland in Berlin, 1945. 250/7 Tac # 339 and a 251 from the same destroyed column.

http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y181/Sheeds/1010718150.jpg.

http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y181/Sheeds/2507Wiking1945.jpg

http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y181/Sheeds/251-7-Wiking-1945lowrez.jpg

Your Humble Servant, Willy.

[brokeneagle]

Thanks Willy,
and none too soon either you slacker! :lol:
It wasn't that there wasn't any others... I just had a few more freaks to post up......like these.

That old chestnut, stug C in East Prussia totally Freaked with a retro late saukopf mantlet and 75mm gun on original superstructure.
W.J.Speilberger - Sturmgeschutz
http://i26.photobucket.com/albums/c131/3dbattleart/photos/wierdstug.jpg

This one looks to be a Panther G from the late Sept. '44 batch. After Zimm was stopped. I have included this one not only because it was a survivor but also because it looks to be a steel road wheel version done by M.A.N. in late sept. '44. Look closely at that wheel right at the edge of the picture. ?
M.A.N. produced these between builds 121032 - 121055 SN [according to Tankpower Panther vol 1]. Even though this is quoted as 121030 the last few digits are hard to distinguish and it has all the trade marks of this series, including the fact that the number is stencilled clearly on the front plate. Too close for comfort I say.
The photo caption reads 'from the Panzer Division 'Kurmark', Germany March 1945. 'Kurmark' were one of the better units defending the access to Berlin in March/April 1945. Near the end of April they had retreated towards Buckholz and then were forced south where they fought to the end against the 1st Ukranian Front.
Panzerwaffe 1945 vol.1 Wydawnictwo no 198
http://i26.photobucket.com/albums/c131/3dbattleart/photos/swpanther.jpg

.....another fairly well known photo from Concord, Armour battles on the Eastern Front. (2) Downfall
KingTiger from SS -502 rebarrelled with a Panther 7.5 cm L70. defense of Berlin.
Now that's a freak!
http://i26.photobucket.com/albums/c131/3dbattleart/photos/kt.jpg

;) 2 more Panthers from the M.A.N. FACTORY with the final station road wheel, cammo loops on the turret sides and no aa ring on the cupola(IR mounts on the manlet side and Poison gas plates as well).
Sturm & Drang 5
http://i26.photobucket.com/albums/c131/3dbattleart/photos/p1.jpg

http://i26.photobucket.com/albums/c131/3dbattleart/photos/p2.jpg

I hope that you have enjoyed the freak show and please add any of your own if you have them.

[Sheeds]

Hilly.

Fer farks sake.....that KT has an 88 main gun. One way the Germans rendered their tanks unusable was to drain the oil out of the recuperators and fire a last round....thus the gun is stuck in total recoil.

Amateur......

Willy.

[Sheeds]

Heres two more angles of your SW Panther Hilly.

Did you scan the pic? Notice on my scan it clearly shows the all important SW, while yours is cropped a little tight. (the chassis number is slightly clearer.... 123079 or 8?). I thought you might also want the other angle, just to remove all doubt. ;)

http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y181/Sheeds/SteelwheelPantherG-121039-ofPz1.jpg

http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y181/Sheeds/6PDcandidate.jpg

Willy.

[Stuke Sowle]

Here's a shot Willy:

http://www.kitpic.com/is.php?i=21718&img=HU036532.jpg

[brokeneagle]

Originally posted by Willy Naylor@Jan 7 2006, 05:15 AM
Hilly.

Fer farks sake.....that KT has an 88 main gun. One way the Germans rendered their tanks unusable was to drain the oil out of the recuperators and fire a last round....thus the gun is stuck in total recoil.

Amateur......

Willy.
:o I was a little unsure on this as I had heard both versions, so I followed the caption. However, the muzzle break does look smaller than it should be and what about the recoil sleeve on the first part of the barrell?

:) Thanks for the extra shot of the SWPanther..... glad I can walk away right on something!

[Sheeds]

Stuke. Thats the one, thank you.

Hilly, let it go dude......its an 88.

Bill.

[Ebbe Bergman]

Okay Ian and all of you others!
Here comes a picture on the Tiger 2 number 100 from Berlin.
http://i35.photobucket.com/albums/d178/bergman1980/t2berlin3.jpg

Next is a Panther D at the eastern front. Look at the barrel!
http://i35.photobucket.com/albums/d178/bergman1980/cherkassy.jpg

Cheers!

[Evan August]

A close up of the shot Stuke posted-

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v231/eaugust/1077967874.jpg

[brokeneagle]

Originally posted by Willy Naylor@Jan 7 2006, 02:42 PM
Stuke. Thats the one, thank you.

Hilly, let it go dude......its an 88.

Bill.
:( but......but........ my hopes , my dreams.......my freak. :lol:

[Larry Bates]

there , there its ok, we'll find you another........ :lol:

Larry

[brokeneagle]

:) Thanks Larry, I feel better now.

[Larry Bates]

:lol: :lol:

[Ebbe Bergman]

I guess that most or everyone knew that the person lying next to the Sdkfz 251 in Berlin is named Gunnar and was one of the Swedish soldiers in Waffen SS Nordland, Schweden zug. That Sdkfz was carrying the company comander Gösta Pehrsson. Dont know if he´s dead now or still alive. He lived/lives in Karlskrona in Sweden. Dont know him or ever seen him more than on picture.
Cheers!
Ebbe

[Larry Bates]

Thanks Ebbe,

I did not know that.

Larry

[Sheeds]

Hi Ebbe.

Do you mean the body lying next to the 250/7 or the unindified lump at the right rear of the 251? If you mean at the 251, do I assume you have more info or photos of this vehicle?

The body lying next to the 250/7 is said to be that of Ragnar Johansson, driver of the company commander, Hauptsturmführer Hans-Gösta Pehrsson.

Willy.

[amba]

Willy,

but if it is the 250 of the Company Commander then it should be a 250/1 shouldn't it?

-Ambjoern

[Sheeds]

Sadly Amba, 3/SS-Pz.Aufkl.Abt.11 of the Nordland Division, consisted of 4 officers and 33 enlisted men at this final stage of the war.

Its a miricle they had any vehicles running at all.

Willy.

[amba]

I know that Willy, I read the book "Swedische Freiwillige in der Waffen SS". But the Author mentioned that Hans-Gösta Pehrsson was riding a 250/1 during that breakout attempt at the Friedrichstrasse in Berlin.

I am also not sure about it. Is there any clear picture which indicates a 250/7? Or does the #339 point to a 250/7?

According to my references a 250/7 did not have that front MG.

-Ambjoern

[Sheeds]

Hi Ambjeorn.

The tach number "339" is listed as a being equipped with the 8cm Mortar in the Nordland OOB. There is also a tach symbol on the front plate indicating this vehicle is a mortar track, as well as the telltale sign of where the mortar base plate was hanging on the right rear of the hull.

The MG shield may have been fitted for the break out?

Willy.

[Evan August]

The story of Nordland's Sweedes is of great interest to me. I'm working on several 250s from the division. If you want to read an awesome book on the subject, get a copy of Twilight of the Gods. It's a Sweedish SS man's account of the end of the war, from the end of the Kurland campaign to Berlin. It reads like a novel, and brings the hell of war to reader. A great book. The story of Pehrsson and Wallin's escape from the commies is quite riveting! According to the OOB at the end of the book, the 3rd (Swedish) Company of the Aufklarungs Abteilung was equiped mostly with 250/1s, with the 4th platoon having the 250/7s. By the time of the breakout attempt, there were few vehicles available, and whatever ran was used. So it's quite possible that the company CO was in a /7.

[Sheeds]

Thanks Evan.

It's a fact that vehicle 339 is a mortar track of the 3/SS-Pz.Aufkl.Abt.11 (Swedish company).

Willy.

[brokeneagle]

Another couple of shots from the end in Vienna - Das Reich, the last Mk4 they had and the Russians are coming! No knock outs this time but a couple of great shots from what was probably the last day in Vienna. Photos from 'Division DAS Reich im bild' - Otto Wiedinger
Also note the parked late model half tracks with artillery in tow.
http://i26.photobucket.com/albums/c131/3dbattleart/photos/vienna.jpg

[Larry Bates]

Ian,
These pics really tell a story.

Would make a good dio.

Larry

[brokeneagle]

Yeah, the set of photo's are quite compelling. I have found dates and site location as well. Floridsdorf Bridge Vienna 13 April 1945. Weidinger is the one 'spanked up' in the leather coat in most of the shots.
Images from same as above and 'When all brothers are silent'
http://i26.photobucket.com/albums/c131/3dbattleart/photos/v5.jpg

http://i26.photobucket.com/albums/c131/3dbattleart/photos/v6.jpg

http://i26.photobucket.com/albums/c131/3dbattleart/photos/v3.jpg

This last shot is captioned as ss artillery in street fighting against Russian tanks. I don,t know if this last photo is a late one though as the uniforms look early and too good for end of days.
http://i26.photobucket.com/albums/c131/3dbattleart/photos/v7.jpg

[Evan August]

Hey Ian, I've got that Das Reich book too. Some cool shots in it! One thing that I've been wondering about is that photo on the next page (after the Vienna pics). Is that a panzerschreck wired to the side of a halftrack?

[brokeneagle]

Evan,
looks like it to me. Would look good on the side of a 1/35 251. Great shot that.........the close-up is very clear and how's the MP40 stored on safe setting with the breech open. Trouble is they had a problem of 'poping out and turning into a 'runaway'.

[Kevin]

Hey Guys,

I know that we over at M-L have discussed this series of SdKfz 250/251 halftracks from Nordland before. I was able to buy the book "Ragnarok" -> in english "Twighlight of the Gods" by Erik Wallin, in which he speaks about his time in Berlin at the end. The rest of the Nordland Recon Battalions support (mortars..) platoon halftracks were lost during the retreat back over the Teltow Canal in Berlin. Apparently someone screamed T34!!! (reaction was like screaming fire in a movie theater) which caused a panic with people trying to get over the bridge before the engineers blew it. During this, the Halftracks and other vehicles couldnt get over the bridge, and when they finally did, the part of the Swedish company which Wallin belonged to (the mortar and heavy weapons platoon), were redirected to another area to set up their mortars for support of the defence. Here they were caught in a massive artillery strike, where all of the halftracks were destroyed and most of their remaining crews were wounded or killed (Wallin being one of them).

After the end of the fighting, he was walking around and ran into a Untersturmführer (or other officer rank) who he knew, who took him to the hiding place of Hans-Gösta Phersson (sorry for the poor swedish spelling here..) who told him about his experience during the Friedrichstrasse break out.

Apparently, the second the escape attempt began accross the Weidendammerbrücke they recieved murderous fire from Ziegelstrasse, which pretty much put an end to most of the unprotected break out attempts. Pherssons Halftrack was put out of action and he began running back towards the Friedrichstrasse S-Bahn station. During this he happened to look back to see who was with him, and saw his driver Ragnar (the Giraffe) Johannson get shot several times, attempt to stand but then fall over dead. At this point he tried to hide off where he couldnt be seen but some Russians noticed him and started throwing grenades down on his hide out.

Sadly there is no real saying who this SdKfz.250 belongs to or its total number. but the story from Wallin and Pherrson is consistant with the photo.

Meh, hopefully this sheds some light? or am i sort of regurgitating here? :(

[brokeneagle]

Thanks Kevin,
very interesting. You obviously know your stuff. I love the stories around the final battles especially in Berlin.
Also, good to see another quote from of Cross of Iron.

[Larry Bates]

:)

[brokeneagle]

Larry,
your signature quote - another classic ..... Kelly's Heroes?

[Larry Bates]

kind of blatant eh? :lol:

[Kevin]

:lol: Kellys Heros is golden.


If any of the rest of you are also a big fan of the end of the war in Berlin stuff, I recently translated (German -> English) an entire report from Georg Diers about his actions in and around Berlin. If you'd like it, send an e-mail and I'd be more than happy to give it around. I'm currently translating the report of Karl-Heinz Turk as well. I also have a couple slides showing the "Panzerstand der Heersgruppe Weichsel" or better said, the Tank strength of the Army Group "Vistula" This includes the 2 Army Corps and their attached units. The table is based around the 7th of April. So as I said, if any of you are interested, send me a e-mail and I'll gladly share this info with you all!

Kevin

[Larry Bates]

Originally posted by Kevin@Jan 18 2006, 03:22 PM
:lol: Kellys Heros is golden

Kevin
It's my Favorite ;)

[James Tainton]

Originally posted by Kevin@Jan 18 2006, 01:22 PM
:lol: Kellys Heros is golden.


If any of the rest of you are also a big fan of the end of the war in Berlin stuff, I recently translated (German -> English) an entire report from Georg Diers about his actions in and around Berlin. If you'd like it, send an e-mail and I'd be more than happy to give it around. I'm currently translating the report of Karl-Heinz Turk as well. I also have a couple slides showing the "Panzerstand der Heersgruppe Weichsel" or better said, the Tank strength of the Army Group "Vistula" This includes the 2 Army Corps and their attached units. The table is based around the 7th of April. So as I said, if any of you are interested, send me a e-mail and I'll gladly share this info with you all!

Kevin
Why not post it here? ;)

[Kevin]

Meh,

Sadly I have everything saved to my computer (for the Tank strength tables..), and I don't remember where I found it originally :( Otherwise I'll post everything else up here once I'm finished translating it!

Kevin

[brokeneagle]

Originally posted by Kevin@Jan 18 2006, 03:22 PM
:lol: Kellys Heros is golden.


If any of the rest of you are also a big fan of the end of the war in Berlin stuff, I recently translated (German -> English) an entire report from Georg Diers about his actions in and around Berlin. If you'd like it, send an e-mail and I'd be more than happy to give it around. I'm currently translating the report of Karl-Heinz Turk as well. I also have a couple slides showing the "Panzerstand der Heersgruppe Weichsel" or better said, the Tank strength of the Army Group "Vistula" This includes the 2 Army Corps and their attached units. The table is based around the 7th of April. So as I said, if any of you are interested, send me a e-mail and I'll gladly share this info with you all!

Kevin
Kevin,
I''l glady take it all!..........please email me anything you have translated on end in and around Berlin. :) Thanks for the post.

[Kevin]

already got a majority of it all posted up on another link in this site, for all to enjoy! :)
http://www.planetarmor.com/forums/index.ph...st=0&#entry9627 (http://www.planetarmor.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=1615&st=0&#entry9627)
Kevin