Late Panzerkampfwagen Ausf. G

[Larry Bates]

This is an AFV that I have been wanting to do for some time now. I've had it stored away, and for various reasons haven't gotten to it. I actually have two G's, an early A, and a late A both DML, and a D, which is also DML. The second G is also DML. I was going to use the Dml for this project, but I thought that I'd do better converting the Dml to an earlier G than to use the Tamiya.

[Larry Bates]

So far here are the goodies I have squirreled away for it.

[Larry Bates]

The aber general set for the Panther G, which includes front fenders, and rails for the schurzen.

[Larry Bates]

The Aber Shurzen skirts......this set does not come with the attachment rails.

[Larry Bates]

Voyager pe stowage boxes for the rear, which I may only use one as the other will be a scratch built IR box. Just purchased this one at the recent Orangecon here in Southern Cal.

[Larry Bates]

The outstanding Aber panther barrel.

[Larry Bates]

Friulmodel's large self cleaning late idler wheel.

[Larry Bates]

Comparison shot of late idler with Tamiya's idler. A bit of a difference in the outside diameter.

[Larry Bates]

The Tamiya idler and a small section of track assembled. I may have to switch to Friuls for tracks as the MK's guide teeth are too close together to go around the Friul idler. :( oh well I like Friuls best anyway as they are metal, and are much easier to assemble than any others.

[Larry Bates]

Model Kasten tracks for the panther. These make the Sherman tracks look like a cake walk. Each tooth has to be glued in as well as the two tiny pins in the sides. That means you got to make sure each one is exactly the same angle and width!

Well, s'all for tonight. I might start this one soon!

[sam_dwyer]

Looks like you have a good collection of shiney things for the Tamiya Panther G there Larry. The Tamiya kit goes together fairly well, but its not without its problems.

This addresses them:
http://missinglinks2.tripod.com/Panther.pdf


Sam

[Larry Bates]

Hey Sam,

Ah yes, I already have a copy of this. :) But thanks for the heads up. What time is it there man?

I actually can't wait to start bending and soldering brass bits. I may even give that workable chain on the gun cradle a go! ;)

[mrt]

:) Hi Larry, eagerly awaiting more progress on this one!!, by the way the WW2 Production resin track goes around the Friul idler ok!!, never used the MK`s with that idler..In my previous experience with the metal track, lots of flash in the open guide horns proved quite "thick" and very difficult to remove..


Andy

[Larry Bates]

Thanks for the heads up Andy. Are the WWII tracks the late ones? Thought they just made the earlies. I'm going to be doing a late G in the east, I think it's Poland. Saw a pic awhile back on ML. It's from a Wyndawnycto(sp?) mag/book. no 51. I'm still searching through my pc for the photo. Should be fun. Thanks for your interest.

Larry

[mrt]

:) Hi Larry, yes they do a set for the late Panther`s..I used them on a late Jagdpanther..


http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v708/yorkshirechamp/jpfin013.jpg

Andy

[Larry Bates]

Ahhhh, very cool. Nice Jagd. Thanks Andy.

[mnickolson]

I have one of these waiting but I have the Lion Roar PE set ;) . Not sure how it would compare to the aber set. I do have the new aber screen set and storage set. Will keep a eye on your build. :)

Mike

[Larry Bates]

That would be an interesting comparison between the two pe sets. Are you going to post yours up? I'd like to see how it stacks up, as I'm sure would others.

There hasn't been a recent Panther craze on the net for a while, maybe its time for another?

Larry

[mnickolson]

I will post some pictures tonight when I get home.

Mike

[Larry Bates]

Great! :)

[mnickolson]

This is the Lion Roar PE set for the Tamiya Panther G

http://i24.photobucket.com/albums/c32/mnickolson/Panther%20G/IMG_1191.jpg

http://i24.photobucket.com/albums/c32/mnickolson/Panther%20G/IMG_1192.jpg


I also have the Friulmodel track and had preordered the new aber grill set and cleaning rod & aerial storage. I still need a barrel, rear storage set and looks like the self cleaning late idler wheel.

http://i24.photobucket.com/albums/c32/mnickolson/Panther%20G/AB35G14.jpg

http://i24.photobucket.com/albums/c32/mnickolson/Panther%20G/AB35R23.jpg

Mike

[Larry Bates]

Hmm, the aerial stowage looks nice. You seem to have quite a collection there yourself. :) ;) The grill set is available for the late G from Aber? That's a new one on me.

I'm thinking, if I can get ahold of some to get the WWII tracks, as Andy suggested. I've got too many major track assemblies to do. :( Those should ease the pain, which would be nice. I really like that aerial stowage, but everything except the brass tube comes with the aber general set. I think I'll just find some suitable tubing. Maybe I'll go for the Mori cupola, it looks real nice and I think was mastered by Kunihito.

Larry

I see you've got one of those mini hold and folds. I saw a really cool sbs on using it to hold german tool clasps and fold in a very unique way. I'll have to see if I saved it.

[mnickolson]

Ah the Mori cupola sounds nice but the WWII tracks were just a bit to much in the price range for me. The aber grill set is new and is part number 35G14. It is for Panther G Late. Tthe only thing I see I don't like about the Lion Roar set is it dose not have the front fenders.

Mike

[Larry Bates]

I think you can get a front fender set from Aber. Well, the WWII tracks are about the same price as Friuls are, I figure as long as I'm getting those, I'll also get a couple of sets of 250/251 tracks for some other projects. I kind of plan projects out faster than I build them(LOL who doesn"t?) so then I can buy as much as I can afford here and there, till I get it all together, then it's not so bad. I'll have plenty to keep me busy till then.

I think I'll post some ref's later tonight.

Larry

[mnickolson]

I have a set of the Model Kasten tracks for the Panther D which I hope to build also soon and a early and late A from Dragon which I saw you had also. Where did you find the WWII tracks for the price of Friul's may I ask ?

Mike

[Larry Bates]

I haven't bought them yet, but I recently saw them somewhere on line for about $35.00 U.S. Of course this doesn't include shipping and what not. That' s why I'll try to get as much as I can when I do order them so as not to incur so many shipping charges, especially from Australia!

If you go to PMMS web site they have the e-mail for WWII productions, and you can order them or get more info than I have. I plan on asking them to send me a list.

Larry

mailto:ww2prod@optusnet.com.au

[mnickolson]

Thanks. I will drop they a email also.

[James Tainton]

If this is the right price for Canadian, well I guess I've lived this long without them- I suppose I still can still get along sans WW II productions
http://www.militaryhobbies.ca/product.cfm?ProductID=5978

[Larry Bates]

Holy Schmoley!!!!! Thats alot of clams! I may have to rethink that one :(

[James Tainton]

Here is a list of products- from an e-mail I recieved from them last Feb.

Best regards,
Jonathan
WWII Productions

WWII Productions

Resin Track and Detail Sets
July 2004 Catalogue
Prices are in Australian Dollars
*Australian Customers add 10% GST.
Item No. Track Sets Price*

35001 Panther Six Chevron TracksReplacement tracks for Tamiya, Dragon,
Italeri and Revell kits of Panthers D, A & G, and Jagdpanther.Set contains:
220 links and 2 x track pin bumps. $45.00

35002 T-34 Waffle Pattern TracksReplacement tracks for any kit of the T-34
or variant.Set contains: 160 links and 2 x Idler swing arms. $40.00

35003 Sd.Kfz 250 Track and DetailsReplacement tracks for Dragon Sd.Kfz 250
series of vehicles.Set contains: 90 track links, 2 x sprocket outers, 3 x
hubcaps and 1 x sprocket assembly jig. $30.00

35004 RSO Track and DetailsReplacement tracks for Italeri RSO and
variantsSet contains: 135 links, 1 x Idler axle, 2 x Idler hubs, 2 x
sprocket hubs and 32 x track shoes (16 each left and right). $42.00

35005 Pz.Kpfw 38(t) TracksReplacement tracks for Tamiya Marder III or Marder
IIIMSet contains: 220 links. $40.00

35006 Panther Early Tracks Replacement tracks for Dragon or Italeri Panther
D kits.Set contains: 220 links $45.00

35007 T81 TrackReplacement tracks for Tamiya kit 35254 of the M26
Pershing.Set contains: 180 links $40.00

35008 T-55 TrackReplacement tracks for Tamiya kit 35257 of the T-55.Set
contains: 190 links $40.00

35009 WingnutsSet contains: Late war German quick release toggles and four
types of wingnuts. Over 70 parts. $4.50

35010 "Luchs" Track Replacement tracks for Tasca Kit no. 35-001 "Luchs"Set
contains: 210 links. $40.00

35011 Tiger Early Track Replacement tracks for Tamiya, Italeri and Academy
kits of the Tiger ISet contents: 220 links and over 45 detail parts. $60.00

35012 Tiger Late Track Replacement tracks for Tamiya Italeri and Academy
kits of the Tiger I & Sturmtiger.Set contents: 220 links and over 45 detail
parts. $60.00

35013 Tiger II/Jagdtiger Battle TrackReplacement tracks for Tamiya and
Dragon/Revell Tiger II/Jagdtiger kits.Set contains: 220 links 2x spacer
rings for use with the Tamiya kits of the Tiger II. $45.00

35014 KV Track (Single Link Type)Replacement tracks for Eastern Express Kits
$45.00

35015 Winterketten for Pz III/IV (Formerly WK01)Replacement tracks for
Tamiya, Dragon and Italeri kits of Pz III/IV or StuG Set contains: 220
links, 45 x ice sprags and 2 x idler swing arms. $45.00

35016 T34 Plate Track Replacement tracks for Dragon and Marquette T-34 40
and 41 Models $40.00

35017 Panzer III/IV Late TrackReplacement tracks for Tamiya, Dragon and
Italeri Pz III/IV models and variants. $40.00

35018 RSO Track with Workable Shoes and DetailsReplacement tracks for
Italeri RSO and variants $45.00

35021 Tiger II/Jagdtiger Transport TrackReplacement tracks for Tamiya and
Dragon/Revell Tiger II/Jagdtiger and Panther II. Set contains: 315 links 2x
spacer rings for use with the Tamiya kits of the Tiger II. $45.00

D-001 Ice SpragsSet contains: Ice Sprags for Panther Six Chevron Track $4.50

Prices are subject to change without notice.



Ordering Instructions.

All orders will be sent once funds have cleared.

Pay by Visa or Mastercard.

Pay by electronic funds transfer (information can be given on request).

Pay by bank draft in Australian Dollars

Pay by international money order made out in Australian Dollars.

Pay by Bank cheque in foreign currency. If paying by this method please add
an additional 10% to cover our bank charges.

Please confirm order with us before sending any payments.
We do not accept online third party payment options (such as Paypal and
CCBill).

Foreign orders are sent by Australia Post Airmail. We can give you a quote
with order confirmation.

All orders are processed using Australian Dollars. If you would like to know
how much your order comes to in your currency we suggest that you try one of
the many online currency converter sites.

If sending credit card information either fax your order and details or
email your order and your card details spread across a few emails. Please
include type, number, expiry date and name shown on the card.

Make all payments payable to WWII Productions.

Phone: +61 (0) 249673205
Fax: +61 (0) 249673207
Email: ww2prod@optusnet.com.au

[James Tainton]

just did a currency conversion and this is the difference. Seems you get more CND for AUS. so it should be cheaper?
45.00 AUD - Australia Dollars = 39.2271 CAD - Canada Dollars
so it maybe cheaper from them directly???

[Larry Bates]

Ooh thats not so bad. Yeah , so it's probably about what I was thinking originally then. Wish I could think where I saw the website that had them originally.

[Larry Bates]

Originally posted by panzerfaust@Nov 17 2005, 01:34 AM
Here is a list of products- from an e-mail I recieved from them last Feb.


Thanks for the list James. ;)

Larry

[Larry Bates]

Originally posted by panzerfaust@Nov 17 2005, 01:39 AM
just did a currency conversion and this is the difference. Seems you get more CND for AUS. so it should be cheaper?
45.00 AUD - Australia Dollars = 39.2271 CAD - Canada Dollars
so it maybe cheaper from them directly???
Bit of a difference in price eh? thats quite the markup. :lol:

I just checked their US store, and it's still about 53.00 dollars. Thats a bit much!

I think I'll order direct. :)

[mrt]

:) Hi Larry, i got mine from Sudhesh Nair, at Scalewerke.. Based in singapore..Great service....

http://www.scalewerke.com/

Andy

[Larry Bates]

Andy ,

Andy, you are the MAN! Thats where I saw it! Scalewerke is run by "Suds" eh? Cool. Man, why is there such a huge difference in price? Oh well.. thanks Andy. :)

Larry

[mnickolson]

I have ordered from there before. Not a bad price for the WWII tracks as I have seen other places. Schatton Accessories barrel's. Also noticed that Schatton has a barrel for the Sturer Emil (3521 - 1/35 Sturer Emil barrel) but no picture.

Mike

[Larry Bates]

Originally posted by mnickolson@Nov 17 2005, 12:41 PM
I have ordered from there before. Not a bad price for the WWII tracks as I have seen other places. Schatton Accessories barrel's. Also noticed that Schatton has a barrel for the Sturer Emil (3521 - 1/35 Sturer Emil barrel) but no picture.

Mike
Ah, so they're easy to work with? I would suspect so being as they are active in the modelling community.

[mnickolson]

Originally posted by Larry Bates@Nov 17 2005, 06:18 PM
Ah, so they're easy to work with? I would suspect so being as they are active in the modelling community.
Yes they were. Seems as like I paid with PayPal. The shipping was the only problem. I seems like it took a long time to the US.

[sam_dwyer]

3 pages in and 38 posts down, must be time for some actual in progress shots eh Larry? Dont keep us in suspence any longer! ;)

[Larry Bates]

:lol: :thumb:

Well Sam, I never would have believed it myself. I think Imay actually do some modelling on Sunday. Have been very busy this week. :) With actual work. I may be able to buy some tracks soon!

Lets see where did I put those aber directions...................

Larry

I smell German armour.

[avukich]

Also noticed that Schatton has a barrel for the Sturer Emil (3521 - 1/35 Sturer Emil barrel) but no picture.

I would suggest staying away from the Schatton Sturer Emil barrel based on the photos of it posted on Perth. I would go with the Armorscale barrel as it looks to be the best by far and doesn't cost any more.

Review of the Schatton barrel (http://www.perthmilitarymodelling.com/reviews/vehicles/schatton/pmbsr35022.htm)

Review of the Armorscale barrel (http://www.perthmilitarymodelling.com/reviews/vehicles/armorscale/b35021.htm)

HTH,
Adam

[Larry Bates]

The target subject. Panther 242 17th panzer division.

I've narrowed the production date to between Oct. '44 and possibly Jan. '45. Also I'm thinking it was an MNH production vehicle?

[sam_dwyer]

OOHH IR equipped panther, nice one.. Note the rear stowage box on the right hand side is different, it held the IR gear when not in use.

Great subject, cant wait to see some progress.

Sam

[Larry Bates]

Originally posted by sam_dwyer@Nov 19 2005, 02:21 PM
OOHH IR equipped panther, nice one.. Note the rear stowage box on the right hand side is different, it held the IR gear when not in use.


Hi Sam,

Yes, this is one reason I picked this subject. This photo was from a discussion on ML about these very boxes. I had originally planned on doing an IR equipped panther like everyone does as a noob.( :lol: ) But after reading many conversations and such I believe Mirko cornered that one and without photo evidence another one would just be a copy of his.

So, onward. I started bending pe last night but had a headache and couldn't take crushing my head with my diopters anymore . I have begun with the cupola. Since there's quite abit of brass dedicated to it. More on this tomorrow!

Larry

Anyone who wants to throw their two cents in on this vehicle please feel free! I don't know a whole lot about it. :)

[Larry Bates]

I did a search on ML axis DG and found a photo OF THE OTHER SIDE!!!!! and apparantly in one of the books that has this photo, is a third from the left rear quarter!

[Larry Bates]

Ok, I started! :)
Got a couple of hours this weekend to model, in between work.
I like to call this shot morning workbench.

[Larry Bates]

The Turret

Added plastic parts, and some pe. Still more to add, like gas indicators and the aiming thingy on front of cupola. The cupola is just dryfit not glued as of yet, as is the mantlet and gun in place for photo.
Just a note, the debris shield has slid down the mantlet as it's not attached yet, and is not in the proper spot.

[Larry Bates]

A closer shot showing where some things need to be added. The x's are where the gas indicators will go. The red circle on the mantlet is the modified plastic piece, whats left of it :lol: from the kit debris cover, it's the mantlet elevation limitter block. The other red circle to the right on the cupola is where the azimuth indicator goes,(formerly referred to as "aiming thingy" very technical :lol: )

The arrow indicates where more detail will go later, as hatch stop blocks and so forth.
The shiney stuff on the mantlet is from texturing it with liquid glue. I'll probably add more texture just for dramatic heavy metal affect. But not too much, don't want it to look unrealistic.

[Larry Bates]

Also did some plastic work and photo etch placement on the rear engine deck.
At this point I am trying to figure out how to replicate the grate and pie shaped louvers on top of the crew compartment heating tower, or Kampfraumheizung.

[Larry Bates]

These are some of the pe parts for inside the cupola. The red circle is the first folded up periscope from aber. These all will be soldered together once they are all folded . The blue circle is some pe items which I think are supposed to represent the thickness of the cast cupola. The arrow shows the pre-folded periscopes.

All for now, may have some more photos later . ;)

[James Tainton]

Looking good Larry ;)
You may want to check your white balance when taking those pics
A quote from someone
Donovan,Nov 18 2005, 09:49 AM]
Gnat (and anyone else interested),

This is a picture of my super high tech light rig. :pinch:

You can see I'm using Studio Systems diffusers
and the basic setup.

The important thing here is the type of bulb. I've
scanned the specs for ya', but you can get these at
any photo/camera store worth a damn, expect to pay
about $5.00 a piece for them and because of the short
life they are not bulbs you want to leave on for a long time.

BTW -- the color temp is the really important thing
to note on the specs for those bulbs.

The Rig

http://www.30seconds.org/Models/LightRig.jpg

The Blub Specs

http://www.30seconds.org/Models/BlubSpecs.jpg

[RobH]

As someone fascinated by photography, I'm a little confused, James.

The specs of those bulbs you quote give a colour temp approx 3200k, but daylight is 6000-7000k?

I agree on the WB on the pics, that are otherwise fine.

I've been using some simple energy efficient bulbs for both working under and photography;
daylight 20W (http://www.lightbulbs-direct.com/variant_detail.asp?var=3456)

I like them because they're energy efficient, fairly decent daylight replication (although I still manually set my white balance) and very very cool to the touch - no burnt fingers or hot scalps! I'm actually able to use tissue over the bulbs to diffuse the light without the paper getting hot.

[Larry Bates]

Good morning,

Thaks for the info James. I messed with the photos for a while, and for some reason couldn't get rid of the yellow cast without burning out the pic, so just left them. I'm just going to have to read some more in my camera literature about adjusting the white balance. I'll need to get a couple of cheap lights for photo sessions, as right now I'm using overhead track lighting for my work surface/and photos.

[Guest_Andrew Hall]

Originally posted by Larry Bates@Nov 19 2005, 08:49 PM
I did a search on ML axis DG and found a photo OF THE OTHER SIDE!!!!! and apparantly in one of the books that has this photo, is a third from the left rear quarter!
Larry, PM me if you want that third piccie.

Andrew

[Larry Bates]

Thanks Andrew :)

Larry

Ok, I've read up on the WB and the next pics will be better! ;)

[DOJO]

Originally posted by RobH@Nov 22 2005, 05:08 AM

The specs of those bulbs you quote give a colour temp approx 3200k, but daylight is 6000-7000k?

daylight is 5500K

[Larry Bates]

Thanks Ruslan.

Larry

[Larry Bates]

What I worked on tonight. The flamvernichter exhaust, and the replaced left side regular pipe, field mod.

[Larry Bates]

another view showing the combination DML and Tamiya flamvernichter combo and the separate pieces from the respective kits, unmodified.

[Larry Bates]

Here , a couple of pics of the exhaust ring, as shown in Doyle's book Germany's panther. And also from a pic recently posted on ML, although I can't remember by whom, but a shot from underneath showing that in fact the bottom is open.

[Larry Bates]

one more from the side.....

[Larry Bates]

I also built the other side that was a field mod, probably because it was crushed. Most pics I have seen with flamvernichters at least one is damaged or totally crushed.

[Larry Bates]

and one of the rear plate with the exhaust placed in position. Still have some clean up and to add the 4 bolts around the top as well as the strap that holds the top to the rear plate.

Sorry some of the pics are a bit blurry. I hand held the camera. But I got the WB down. :)

Larry

[Evan August]

Cool project Larry! I'm building an Ausf A myself right now. The flamvernichter looks familiar, from a Dragon Panther G? I've got the Night Fighting Panther around somewhere that needs to be finished one of these days.

[Larry Bates]

Originally posted by Evan August@Nov 23 2005, 04:28 AM
Cool project Larry!* I'm building an Ausf A myself right now.* The flamvernichter looks familiar, from a Dragon Panther G? I've got the Night Fighting Panther around somewhere that needs to be finished one of these days.
Hello Evan,

Yes, the flamvernichter in gray is from DML nightfighting panther. That kit's destiny has changed several times. It's tough to find alot of photos to choose for late war vehicles. Especially with IR! The nightfighter will be backdated to an early G with ambush camo.

Are you gonna post pics of your build Evan? I'd love to see it. ;)

Larry

[Evan August]

Well Larry, I've got four days off from school this week and i'm heading home. Should be able to get some pics of my projects posted. And I'll have to make a trip to the LHS this weekend too! :lol: You ever see Rhodes Williams' awesome Last Panther in Pomerania dio? He used the DML night Panther. It's on ML, one of my all time favorite dios!

[Larry Bates]

Hi Evan,
Yes I know the dio. Ahh home for the holidays. What is your LHS? YOu live in CA?
Will be waiting for new pics!

Larry

[Larry Bates]

Hi all, Hope you had a nice Thanksgiving.

Here's a small up date, been working on the turret. Had to paint some of the interior so I could mount the mantlet pieces. This vehicle is an Oct. 44 to possibly Jan '45 production, so it's a good bet the interior was left in primer color.

The primer color I used was a Krylon primer from the can, decanted into a small jar and put through my airbrush.

[Larry Bates]

Although the gun would probably been in high temp primer, which I understand to be a gray color. So.....

I put the gun assembly together at some point in the past, so no pics, but its pretty standard Tamiya stuff.

[Larry Bates]

Heres the mantlet, I added some serial numbers to the top above the gun tube. I've been searching for some pics of the Aberdeen panther G, as Darren Gawle used to put serials on his mantlet. Have not found them yet, if anyone knows the where abouts of the pics on the net could you please post here? Thanks.

I've also noticed that some have the numbers and some don't or are worn off?

You'll also notice in this photo that I have added some more texture to the mantlet with some Mr. Surfacer. I also used it to addhere the pe numbers to the mantlet.

[Larry Bates]

Here the rest of the fittings are applied to the mantlet, this time with cyano. These were fittings for extra IR lights that were planned.

[Larry Bates]

Here, the detail of the front plate behind the mantlet, blended the rounded profile section into the front plate as they were cast as one piece. Also added the circle and square bumps on either side respectively, and the mantlet stops.

[Larry Bates]

circle on this side...and as you can see, some texturing on the turret side plates, with Tamiya grey putty, sanded back.

[Larry Bates]

And here's the whole thing with Mr. Surfacer to check the uh.....surface. :)

Also drilled out the mantlet opening for the gun tube as well as the piece that fits inside the turret, a two piece affair.

More Tomorrow. :)

[Larry Bates]

More pics of what I did today.

Worked on the pe for the commanders cupola. These are some of the periscopes after folding, soldering and clean up.

[Larry Bates]

Here are the retaining clips for the periscopes.

[Larry Bates]

The begining of assembling the pe into the cupola interior, some of the periscopes and one of the retainers.

[Larry Bates]

All of the pe in the cupola.

[Larry Bates]

from the outside....... :) sufficiently busy looking.

[Larry Bates]

I've now added the mantlet, debris shield, poison gas detector strips, and the cupola is dry fit. Still the exterior of the cupola to detail, as well as the rear plate and hatch.

[Larry Bates]

So, last night, I put together the escape hatch on the rear plate of the turret.

Abers a little vague but found a pic of the inside of the hatch and got it done.

[Larry Bates]

And it works. ;)
The plate is just taped in place as I still need to paint it on the inside.

[Larry Bates]

An almost finished turret! :)

[James Tainton]

Looking good mate!- Hope to use this building log as reference sometime in the future ;)

[Larry Bates]

Thanks James,

I'll be using your PIV E for ref also, it's really coming along bud. ;)

[mnickolson]

Larry,

Yours is looking good. I have been having problem with the Zim on my current project. Been way to long since I did this. I will keep an eye on your build as I have one also to build but have not received all the stuff as of yet.

Mike

[Larry Bates]

Mike,

Thanks. Ahhh, zimmerit. Frustrating stuff. My first tank model I did the zimm on a Tiger I model. I tried to copy James Blackwell's technique, with a razor saw blade as a zim tool, with auto body spot filler. Problem is, everyother tooth on the saw blade angles opposite the previous one. So when you draw it across the surface, it creats two different marks. Also spot filler is not very stiff when wet. Meaning it sort of flattens out as it has a lot of liquidyness(? is that a word?) to it so it just sort of loses its shape. I've tested other putties but get approximatly the same results. I haven't had to do any zim since, but I have other projects planned that require it. I'm going to try R.J. Products zimm-r-ite as its supposed to be very good. I would think that some mail order company would carry the Japanese modelling putty, I think its made by Gum Ka. It seems to be the right consistency. Anyway, good luck with it. If you have questions, post them, I'm sure you'll get 20 or 30 responces.

Larry

[mnickolson]

Larry,

Thanks. I have R.J.'s zimm-r-ite and also have milliput white and I am using tamiya's applicator. I just can not get it to work right. Anyways thanks and hope you have better luck when you do yours.

Mike

[Larry Bates]

Mike,

Hmmmm, that's not what I want to hear. :( Well, I hope you figure it out, so you can tell me what not to do! ;) Good luck.

Larry

[sam_dwyer]

Gday Mike, Larry,

I use Tamiya Grey Putty (the one with the orange lid) and either Tamiya or Gum Ka's zimmerit tools on my DML Tiger, K.O'd Panther A and Bergepanther. Over the years ive tried damn near every putty I could get my hands on, to little or no avail. I kept coming back to Tamiya putty every time.

In a nutshell, the technique is as follows:
1. apply putty to surface with small steel ruler - no more than 1-2mm thick at most
2. rake the pattern into the putty, ensuring you push the rake thru the putty to the plastic, so that the depth of the zimm is the depth of the teeth of the rake
3. chip any sections away now, before the solvents in the putty eat into the plastic
4. Go have a beer
5. tidy up any dags or untidy bits..

I know this sounds really simplified, thats because its a pretty simple process.. hey maybe i'll put up a simple tutorial on zimm here on pA.

Hope this helps, and sorry Larry for hijacking your thread. Great job on the panther thus far.

Sam

[Larry Bates]

No problem Sam,

I've tried that too, maybe I'll go back and revisit it. Thanks for the interest Sam. I think everyone would love to see a tutorial from you.

Larry ;)

[mnickolson]

Thanks Sam. I will give that a try. A a tutorial would be great.

[Andrew Hall]

Zimm-zimm-zimmmmmmm........zzzzzzzzzzzz. The most tedious thing after assembling link to link Sherman tracks or cleaning up PzIV roadwheels.

I was doing some zimming Sat. night/Sunday morning. Sams right, there's a knack to it borne out of ruining many models. I've tried Milliput like the Tony Greenland/Dave Parker way i.e. taking a lump and spreading with your thumb, I've tried various fillers with Tamiya or Gum-Ka rakes but what I feel most comfortable with these days is Magic Sculp rolled out to parchment thickness using lots of talc. Just like making pastry. You can literally cut the necessary shapes out roughly to size and lay them on the hull or turret side. Don't use water if you try Magic Sculp though, it doesn't like it as Milliput does. I've been trying out AFV Clubs zimm roller (a little toothed wheel on a metal bar) and once you've used it you can see, from the patterns it makes, a roller is what they used in the factories for the real thing on some vehicles. There's a beautifully clear shot of the back of the turret of a Panther 232 showing 'rolled' zimmerit.

A second apology for zimmjacking your thread Larry :) ....BTW would you check your positioning on that horseshoe thing in front of the cupola? I couldn't see it 100% but it should sit slightly to the right of the sighting vane. A steel tape passes from the IR gear through a sheet metal guide on the front periscope guard and then goes into the turret through this hole and onto a roller device. Another tape comes off this to the gun.

Andrew

[Larry Bates]

No apologies needed Andrew,

Thanks for the interest in the Zimm mystery. I'll check that guard, but I believe it''s to the right of the vane as the commander views it.

Larry ;)

[Larry Bates]

For Andrew,

Check!

[Larry Bates]

My first zimm job! hmmm :(
See the rest in my new Gallery.

http://www.planetarmor.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=1480

[Larry Bates]

Here's a bit more detail added to the cupola and turret. I added the little bits around the hatch opening to stop the hatch from opening too far or closing too far. Also added the sighting vane for the commander. The pilzen sockets have been bugging me for a while so finally decided to replace them. So I picked out the appropriate sized plastic rod when compared to Hilary Doyle's drawings in Germany's panther quest for combat supremacy. Drilled some holes, in it and cut and glued. Also added two handles, one to the commanders hatch and one grab handle over the escape hatch on the rear.

[Larry Bates]

Top

[Larry Bates]

I also did a bit more texturing on the turret sides. Hard to see, but I used some liquid glue to soften the putty and rough it up a bit ala Sam Dwyer. ;)

I feel compelled to add that, while reading through other vbenches on this site I had also read Darren Gawle's threads on his vbench. So, I'll just say it's a Darren Gawle thing. Sorry for the confusion.

[Larry Bates]

The rear....it's getting that busy look. :) The hatch is just resting in its hole which is why it is listing to the side.

[Larry Bates]

Just to check out what it'll look like......

[Larry Bates]

The start of the chain for the gun crutch. Just a couple of links...

[sam_dwyer]

Looking great Larry, youve made some real progress on that turret! Great work on the gun crutch chain too, every panther ive ever done ive cheerfully avoided using that Aber part!

You mentioned that you textured the turret 'a'la Sam Dwyer' - while I use this technique, it was Darren Gawle who showed me.. so where did you get the referece to me? No biggie, just curious.

Cant wait for the next update.

Sam

[Larry Bates]

Hey Sam,
I think I got it from one of your build logs? Except I did mine while it was dry. Of course I was reading some of his stuff so maybe I read his and thought it was you. I don't know I'm getting old. My aplogies to Darren.

Thanks Sam. Man that chain is REAL small. :lol:

Larry

[sam_dwyer]

Yeah im pretty sure it was Darren's King Tiger thread. I used it recently on a DML Panther D (that hasnt made it up here yet at pA) - but skipped a step, didnt bother with the putty, just stippled the plastic with a stiff brush and glue, then sanded back. Either way, its all good.
Hard to catch in pics pre paint, but here it is:

http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y82/samd1/_DSC4887.jpg

http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y82/samd1/_DSC4888.jpg

Sam

[Larry Bates]

Looks Good Sam,

Thats normally how I do texturing, but wanted something that would give me a little more random effect. Hey, that's a D, you're holding out on us Sam! Are you going to post it ? :)

Larry

[Larry Bates]

Sam,

I think your post about zimm may have influenced my memory.
I guess I'll have to start checking my sources. ;)

Larry

[Larry Bates]

Originally posted by sam_dwyer@Dec 2 2005, 02:31 AM
Yeah im pretty sure it was Darren's King Tiger thread. I used it recently on a DML Panther D (that hasnt made it up here yet at pA) - but skipped a step, didnt bother with the putty, just stippled the plastic with a stiff brush and glue......

Sam
Yep,

That's where I got it from.

Larry

[Larry Bates]

Hello,
Well, not much time to model this weekend, what with all the holiday parties and what not. But, I managed to Squeeze in a bit here and there. I thought it was about time to start in on the weld seams on the turret. There's alot! And they take awhile to do. :( Here you can see I started on the seams around the armoured periscope covers. They look abit messy this close but I'll clean it all up later. The welds on the AA gun ring I let the glue melted plastic act as weld seams as in scale they are quite small.

[Larry Bates]

Also, I discovered, almost as soon as I put it on, that I had reversed the sighting vane on the cupola, so, took it off and reattached it correctly. This little sub assembly is a model all on its own.

[Larry Bates]

I refashioned the hand hold above the escape hatch as the way I had it was going into the holes on the edge of the turret. It actually has quite the ball shaped welds, underneath round flattened ends of the hand hold/grab bar. I flattened the ends of the brass wire, after trimming the length, and glued it on top of punched plastic discs with ca, and then glued that onto the weld seam area.

[Larry Bates]

Also, did some very small spot welds to hold the debris guard on to the mantlet.
It's kind of hard to see them, I used stretched sprue to do these with liquid glue. (I have better luck with putty, lol).

[Larry Bates]

I realized that I kept forgetting to put the pe rain guard on the mantlet over the sight, so did that. It was a bugger to bend into the correct shape but was ok with the ca filling in any gaps. Also put an mg end in the corresponding hole, but it seems a bit large, so may have to redo it. In this shot you can also make out the round hole that you'll need to drill to fit the Aber gun in. The kit gun has a square end. ;)

[Larry Bates]

Finished detailing the flamvernichter, and glued it up.

[Larry Bates]

I took a better photo of the chain links. I'll probably work on this soon. ;)

[Larry Bates]

I also worked on the side of the upper hull, filing off the nubs, filling the holes and just generally flattening it. Also some of the same stuff for the rear plate.

All for now. Please feel free to ask any questions or offer opinions or what ever. Its kind of quiet here, like an operating room. :lol:

[sam_dwyer]

Gday Larry,

I really like where youre headed with the detailing on your panther. Also, cant wait to see that travel lock chain done! ;)

Sam

[Larry Bates]

Thanks Sam,

What I spent most time this weekend modeling was researching on ML axis dg on the glacis plate join to the top of the hull. From what I can tell, it is not flat, and it is a bit above the hull top. It may be a little over done on Tamiya's kit . I'm wrestling with fixing it or just letting it go, and seeing what it'll look like once the weld trough is filled in. As for the chain links, they are so damn small, I'm afraid to clean the edges up. Not that any one could see the rough edges.

Larry

[sam_dwyer]

Ive got shots of the Koblenz G and the Saumur Bergepanther G, ill post them up when I get in from work tonight. Yeah theyre sort of flat, sort of not! ;)

Its definately a mod worth doing to your G. One of the other guys on here, Willy Nailor, he has done the mod a few times, and it really makes a difference.

Sam

[Larry Bates]

Alrighty,

I'll be waiting with bells on. I probably won't see them till morning here, as I'm just sitting down for dinner.
Can't wait.

Larry

[James Tainton]

you've probaby seen the tweak list for the G- it has something about that front glacias plate modification
http://www.elccweb.com/missinglinks/index.htm
and this article at WW2 Model Maker
http://www.ww2modelmaker.com/articlepub/DGpangnfart.htm
Both are by Darren Gawle, (who use to post here in the past but must be hanging out somewhere else these days...)

[Larry Bates]

James,

Thanks man, got em both printed. I'm just having trouble following the change blindly, without photo evidence. ;) I really just don't want to do it if I can get out of it, lol.

Larry

[sam_dwyer]

Ok, here they are. First off, some Flammvernichter (sp) shots. These are from the Koblenz Panther G:

http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y82/samd1/p7.jpg

http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y82/samd1/p6.jpg

And now some Panther G glacis welds, these are from the Bergepanther G at Saumur:

http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y82/samd1/p1.jpg

http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y82/samd1/p2.jpg

http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y82/samd1/p3.jpg

http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y82/samd1/p4.jpg

http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y82/samd1/p5.jpg

Hope these are of some use!


Sam

[Larry Bates]

Thanks for the pics Sam.

Those are really nice shots. I especially like the flammvernichter ones. The pic I have of the underneath has the jack handle in the way where the pipe enters the armoured cover. Now I need fill that in, :( .
As far as the glacis join............ah well, shezba.

I guess I'm gonna have to do it. :angry: I looked at the pics I had again, and they're just about like the Saumer bergepanther. This shot is from the earlier G at Aberdeen, taken off the net from I believe it was WW2 model makers site, or Tanxheaven. I think I'll also have to do the interlocking plate welds on the hull and the turret.

Thanks again for the pics Sam.

Larry

[Larry Bates]

Hello everyone,

Just a small update today. I've been trying to fit some build time in. Made some adjustments to the inside of the escape hatch after finding some better pics of it.
This first pic is before....

[Larry Bates]

Next pic is adjustment made to the handle, it's not flat it is angled toward the inside of the turret. (It just makes sense.) Also, I hadn't mentioned it before, but on the right side of the arm, is another bar that angles off the plate from the corner. It also needs to be bent 90 degrees. Aber's instructions don't show this. This arm has a slot in it, and I believe it's for the catch on the exterior of the turret just outside the hatch, to keep it from swinging around while the tank is in motion.

After.....

[Larry Bates]

I have worked some more on the hull, nothing exciting, filling, sanding flattening, and cut the front fenders off to get ready for the aber fenders. I mostly worked on this little piece. It's like micro surgery. :( I think the hardest part is trying to get the sprue flared at the ends to hold the links together! arrrrgggghhh.

[Larry Bates]

I've been playing with the camo scheme while studying the photos I have. I made some tracings of the photos and copyed them so I could try different ideas.
I then scanned them and put them in my paint program, and sprayed some color on them. Mind you , these are just basic colors not exact shades. ;)

[Larry Bates]

some more....

[panamadan]

Larry, a very high tech way to after your paint scheme! Dan

[Larry Bates]

Thanks Dan ;)

Also, here's a pic of the hatch from an early G at Overloon.

Credit, Leijon Schoot/Tanxheaven

Larry

[Larry Bates]

Hi guys,
I did a little modeling today. I've been going through some of my references, and came across a photo of a late war Panther G turret sourced from The Tank Museum, in my Osprey book on Panther tanks. The photo showed a serial number on the mantlet front lower right corner as you face it. So, I added one. I also redid the rain guard over the gunners sight in copper sheet, as I felt the Aber one was a bit small.

Please excuse the bad choice of color on the type in the photos. :(

[Larry Bates]

Here's the photo from Osprey's book on the Panther Medium Tank.

[Larry Bates]

I also redid the mg in the mantlet as the other was too big, and just didn't cut it.
I am using an mg from "Tank" company in Russia, in the glacis, so I used the kits mg end here in the mantlet.

[Larry Bates]

....added a couple more Aber pieces to the cupola interior, a ring with some bolt heads and plates on it.

[Larry Bates]

The underside.....
To add this ring inside the cupola, I first had to grind off some molded in tabs or bumps. I have no idea what these were for in the model. I stuck my square ginding bit on my dremel and started very carefully to grind off the first bump. I hit the brass pieces surrounding my whirring bit and sent them flying! Well, one of the retainers for the periscopes went to the floor, and the other piece landed on the desk, so the pieces were re-installed and in went the ring.

[Larry Bates]

Also, I worked on the Kampfa-freezing what-cha-ma call it... :lol: scratched the pie shaped air flow control plates, that regulate how much warm air is sucked into the crew compartment.

[Stuke Sowle]

About time I chimed in here Larry!

Excellent progress on this kit. The level of detail you have achieved is quite good, I need to use your blog as reference for the G that I have suspended work on this past year.

Also love the method you use to "visualize" your camo scheme. I thought I was doing good making copies of line drawings and coloring them with colored pencils! :)

[Larry Bates]

Originally posted by Stuke Sowle@Dec 18 2005, 11:25 AM



Also love the method you use to "visualize" your camo scheme. I thought I was doing good making copies of line drawings and coloring them with colored pencils! :)
Hi Stuke,

Thanks for the comments. I thought I'd be done with the turret by now, lots more detail than I thought on it. As far as the camo experiment goes, it doesn't appear to follow any pattern that I've found, or has been altered after it left the factory.

Maybe it was a rebuild.

I was going to use colored pencils to do the camo but thought I'd try it in the pc just for kicks. I'll more than likely use colored pencils to do it when I finally get down to it.

Larry

[James Tainton]

here are a couple of pages I found a while ago. It is for Airplane colour profiles but I think many of the concepts can be used for armour schemes.
http://www.rjlee.org/novice-avart-1.htm

http://www.rjlee.org/novice-avart-2.htm

[Larry Bates]

Thanks James,

Very interesting. What a funny guy.

Larry

[Larry Bates]

Hello,

A small update for this morning....I've added some small details to the kampframheizing tower (red arrow) , also the last bit on the muzzle break.

[Larry Bates]

I also folded up the Voyager stowage box that will go on the left rear plate. It still needs to be soldered. These stowage boxes are very nice, thin sheet,yet not too soft, still has quite a bit of rigidity to it.

More later........

[Larry Bates]

Here's the soldered stowage boxes, before clean up.

[Larry Bates]

Here are the cleaned up shots.....

[Larry Bates]

Here are some shots of the upper hull showing cut off front fenders and flattening of the plate surfaces, as well as filling the holes for preparation for the photo etch pieces.

[Sheeds]

Hi Larry.

Thats coming along nicely, you're making a very detail model....your soldering seems to be working out a treat. :thumb:

If i may add three small suggestions:

1. There were one nut and one bot on either side of the raised heater. see fig 1.

2. Add a wing nut to the bit that holds down the spare pieces of pie.

3. Seeing as how you've done great job on your cupolla (instead of buying and A/M item) you could add the cast numbers to the inside area that the winding mechanism mounts through. see fig 2.

Fig 1. (thanks Andrew Hall).
http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y181/Sheeds/PantherHeaterRear2.jpg

Fig.2 (Ryton Panther Book).
http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y181/Sheeds/panthecup.jpg

Have you thought about how you're going to do the IR box yet?

Keep us posted.

Willy.

[Sheeds]

Larry, I forgot to say about the cast texture on the heater. Mr Surfacer 500 will work great to achieve that look. ;)

Also, for a bit of variation, cut off a couple of the mounting bolt heads and add a nut and bolt as per Andrew's photo...or not.....only a thing I meant to do on my Panther. :)

Willy.

[Larry Bates]

Hello Willy!

Thanks for the pics. You know, no matter how detailed you think you're getting, there's always more :lol:

I think that I'll do the texture on the heater tower, probably not the bolts thou, but that would definitely be an improvement on the whole look of the thing. ;)

The nut and bolt on either side should look good as well, I'll go for that.
Thanks for the compliments. I've been wondering what there is to hold down the pie shaped things. All the pics I've seen they're missing that detail.

That piece in the cupola with the serial number looks like it sticks out farther than the rest of the inside sections do. Cool detail. Last thing, the IR box, I have'nt thought too much about it yet. I have pics of Mirko's panther model with the same box on the rear. I'll just have to eye ball it I guess.

Thanks Willy. While I've got you looking, I hear you've done several surgeries on the front plate glacis join. If you've got any hints or suggestions on the best way to do it I'm all ears!

Larry

[Larry Bates]

Well, here are the final pics for today.

Got the welds finished finally! :)

[Larry Bates]

So, I tried plastic rod for welds on the rear plate welds for a change.

[Larry Bates]

And the cupola armoured periscope cover welds........DONE! :)

[Larry Bates]

HAPPY NEW YEAR EVERYONE!

[Sheeds]

Happy New Year fella's.

Larry, your welds are looking great. Are you going to add them to the AAMG mount, as per photo? Easy to miss! :thumb:

http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y181/Sheeds/panswe.jpg

In regards to the upper hull mod.....I have attached shots of the finished article, sadly I didn't take any step by step shots. I'll try to explain the order I used.

In point form:

1. Remove rotating periscope by scribing around it.

2. Remove RO armoured periscope cover.

3. Grind glasis overhang level with the hull top.

4. Fill previous hull top weld, re-scribe new weld level with side interlock.

5. Redo side interlocks with putty.

6. Cut out rotating periscope hole, add new circular mount from plastic rod. (blue bit in photos).

7. Fit periscope covers, rotating top plate and travel lock. (while we're at the travel lock, don't forget the missing 4 mounting bolts and missing section of travel lock base section. You can see it as white plastic in a couple of the shots).

Clear as mud? :)

http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y181/Sheeds/panswb.jpg

http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y181/Sheeds/panswa.jpg

http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y181/Sheeds/panswc.jpg

http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y181/Sheeds/panswd.jpg

Hope it helps.

Willy.

[James Tainton]

Nice work Larry, this is going to look great. Happy New Year too you as well! :)

[Larry Bates]

Originally posted by Willy Naylor@Dec 31 2005, 11:05 PM
Larry, your welds are looking great.* Are you going to add them to the AAMG mount, as per photo?* Easy to miss!* :thumb:

In regards to the upper hull mod.....I have attached shots of the finished article, sadly I didn't take any step by step shots.* I'll try to explain the order I used.

Clear as mud?* :)

Hope it helps.

Willy.
Thanks Willy,

I'll be sure to study your step by step. You say you wrote an article? Where may I find it?

As far as the AAMG mg mount welds, I am letting the sqeezed out glue and melted plastic pose as welds. On some examples the welds are about half what your pic shows, I'll make my final decision after I get a coat of Mr. Surfacer on it.


Thanks again Willy.

Larry

P.S. Your panther looks killer. Where can I see it?

[Larry Bates]

Originally posted by panzerfaust@Dec 31 2005, 11:31 PM
Nice work Larry, this is going to look great. Happy New Year too you as well! :)
James,

Thanks, now that I'm about done with the turret I can get on to other things, like the PLATE JOIN! :(

Happy New Year to you also!

Larry

[Stuke Sowle]

Looks great Larry. Very strict attention to detail can be seen on this one.

I wish I could model like this!

[Larry Bates]

Thanks Stuke!

Happy New Year!........and you can! yes you can! like Nike says just do it! :thumb:


Larry

[Larry Bates]

So, I thought I'd go for some extra detail as suggested by Willy. Here I've added the heater bolts that hold the two tower pieces together, as well as the wing nut to hold down the air flow adjuster pie shapes. Also, I've added texture with testors liquid glue.

[Larry Bates]

I robbed the bolts from an academy M-36 model that I have, drilled out two and added the bolt end for the oppsite side with plastic rod.

[Larry Bates]

Here it is with some Mr. Surfacer added to check everything as well as add some additional texture to the tower.

[Larry Bates]

......and last but not least, I added some more serial numbers to the inside of the cupola as per the pics supplied by Willy/Andrew. Thanks guys. :thumb:

[Andrew Hall]

Looking good Larry. On those pie shaped covers (don't worry about it now) there's a little tab on the curved section which sits in a slot on the ring on top of the heater. This tab also sits between those little rectangular bits when the pies are stowed. I've marked where it is in red on your photo.

Just one other thing if you're really sad; the periscope housings actually angle slightly inwards top to bottom. Unfortunately you couldn't extract the cupola from the injection mould if it was accurate.

http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y274/Andrewausfa/post-82-1136155781.jpg

Cheers - Andrew

[Larry Bates]

Hi Andrew,

Yes, I've notice these things you speak of. The cupola one well not much I can do unless I start over and scratch the whole thing. As far as the heater tower, I notice that there should be tabs on the edge of the pie shaped pieces and that they fit in the slits on the ring. I also saw, I think in Jentz's panther book that where the tabs on the pie pieces fit in stowage there is a cover over the tab. I was thinking to maybe replicate the slits with a line of some sort.

Thanks for pointing it out.

Larry

[Andrew Hall]

where the tabs on the pie pieces fit in stowage there is a cover over the tab

Exactement! Yes there's a shot of one of the US (Aberdeen?) Panthers in GPT somewhere with the bar across the two tabs.

I've been soooooo busy at work and stuff lately but I kept meaning to mention something, Panther 242 is probably from 19.PD not 17.PD :)

http://mujweb.cz/www/tanks/IR_Panth.htm

Cheers - Andrew

[Larry Bates]

Andrew,

Thanks for that information. I have read the disscussions on ML in the archives about this tank and there was great disscussion as I'm sure you remember about what div. this tank belonged to. I think the result was 17th pd. but this seems to be quite reliable? since it comes from Czhechoslavakia? very cool, I'm printing it right now. :thumb: So, this is written by Tomas Jakl?

Thanks.

Larry

[Andrew Hall]

Hi Larry,

Yes this is from Tomas' site, there's some other good stuff on there too. His latest book is a real must have if you've not got it.

Forget that line of mine about the Panther persicope covers being angled. I woke up in a cold sweat last night as I must have had a 'moment'. It's the Tigers covers that need angling back not the Panther.

Cheers - Andrew

[Larry Bates]

Originally posted by Andrew Hall@Jan 4 2006, 08:34 AM
Forget that line of mine about the Panther persicope covers being angled. I woke up in a cold sweat last night as I must have had a 'moment'. It's the Tigers covers that need angling back not the Panther.

Cheers* - Andrew
No problem Andrew,

Doesn't matter as I thought you were talking about how the periscope openings were cut into the cupola anyway. :lol: (a moment hmmmm?) ;)

Which, May 1945 in the Czech lands?

Larry

[sam_dwyer]

Gday Larry, stumbled over another shot of an IR boxed Panther. I thought this was a newly discovered one, till I saw it mentioned in another discussion. Anyway, this shot sort of shows the latch set up

http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y82/samd1/PantherGpossIRP11Balaton.jpg

The image is from the (Armada?) book on the Battle of Lake Balaton - definately worth picking up if you dont have it already.

Hope this helps,

Sam

[Larry Bates]

Thanks Bud,

Sam, anything on the latches is good, hard to see even from drawings in Jentz and Doyle's achtung series. Cool pic, I'd like to find some more on these battles, but it's kind of hard finding these books around here, and a gamble buying online if you've never seen it before. That's what I love about this site, able to get viable input from trusted people. ;)

P.S. got about six shots from Willy on these boxes, but still can't quite get the latch arrangement. I don't think I've seen anything similar before.

Larry

[Larry Bates]

Ok, a couple of pics for tonight. Probably getting tired of the Kammfrawheizing, but I decided to go one more step and add some bolt and nut heads around the edge of the tower where it bolts to the engine deck. Also, in most photos, these are missing, but on the stowage for the pie pieces at the outer edges where the tabs fit into two raised bumps,there are covers. I added these.

For the bolts I used a #78 drill bit with 28 gauge brass wire. I drilled the holes thru the middle of the existing bolt heads all the way thru, then fit short pieces of the brass wire thru till it stuck out as far as I wanted to show, glued it and snipped and filed smooth on the bottom.

[Larry Bates]

Here's a few of the other stuff I did this weekend. Not much time spent modelling
:( .

I started feeling out the aerial stowage assembly. Rolled some copper sheet, cut to length. I am now getting ready to start soldering stuff together. I added the cross bars to the opening of the armoured snorkel cover. I also added the plastic kit hooks to the engine deck.

[Larry Bates]

A close up of the new bolt heads, and the covers over the tabs on the pie shapes.

[Larry Bates]

Last night I started work on the aerial stowage tube. It's a bugger trying to solder a tube together. :o
I figured I could hide the seam under the angle iron on top of the tube. Problem is the straps holding the tube on have thickness andare a bit above the surface at that point, so I may have to rethink or rebuild it. :(

[brokeneagle]

Larry,
what do you use for those great bolt heads? I wouldn't mind getting that effect on my stug.

[Larry Bates]

Originally posted by Larry Bates@Jan 1 2006, 05:47 PM
I robbed the bolts from an academy M-36 model that I have, drilled out two and added the bolt end for the oppsite side with plastic rod.
Ian,

I just used these bolts to hold the two halves together, the rest were the molded on ones, and I just drilled thru them.

Larry

For the bolts I used a #78 drill bit with 28 gauge brass wire. I drilled the holes thru the middle of the existing bolt heads all the way thru, then fit short pieces of the brass wire thru till it stuck out as far as I wanted to show, glued it and snipped and filed smooth on the bottom.

[Larry Bates]

I primered the turret today with Mr. Surfacer 1000 thinned with laquer thinner, so I could finish assembling it soon. I'll coat it with red oxide primer color later.

[Larry Bates]

one more ....

[Larry Bates]

So, my next step will be altering the glacis to top hull plate join. I used a metal rule taped to the glacis and scored a line with an X-acto knife blade, approximately 1mm maybe a little less below the existing top of the plate,

[James Tainton]

Originally posted by Larry Bates@Jan 9 2006, 08:36 AM
Last night I started work on the aerial stowage tube. It's a bugger trying to solder a tube together. :o
I figured I could hide the seam under the angle iron on top of the tube. Problem is the straps holding the tube on have thickness andare a bit above the surface at that point, so I may have to rethink or rebuild it. :(
you may want to try one of these?
http://www.kitpic.com/is.php?i=22112&img=Aber-R-231.jpg

http://www.kitpic.com/is.php?i=22113&img=aberR-23.jpg

Looking good.

[Larry Bates]

I just might get one, it looks better than the one provided in the basic set. It also is more complete, the basic set has no rear cover for the tube. I guess you are supposed to use one from the kit. My larger problem is the way the angle iron fits over the straps that hold the tube. They should have notches cut into the edges of the angle.

[James Tainton]

Originally posted by Larry Bates@Jan 15 2006, 06:39 PM
I just might get one, it looks better than the one provided in the basic set. It also is more complete, the basic set has no rear cover for the tube. I guess you are supposed to use one from the kit. My larger problem is the way the anle iron fits over the straps that hold the tube. They should have notches cut into the edges of the angle.
Well time is money- might be cheaper just to upgrade?
This set looks interesting as well - think I'll send for one.
http://www.aber.net.pl/store/cataloque_par...35g14/35g14.htm (http://www.aber.net.pl/store/cataloque_parts/grills/35g14/35g14.htm)

[Larry Bates]

Yeah,

The kit ones are real thick on top of the pe grills. That is one nice set.

[Larry Bates]

Last pics for today, The oxide primer coat. For whatever reason, some of the coat came out a bit rough. I'll need to buff it back a bit.

Also, the primer is not as orange as it appears in these pics.

[Guest_Andrew Hall]

Larry,

Before you go too far down the road of lowering that glacis....a contributing factor for what makes the glacis look a little high is that Tamiya (or DMLs Ausf.G) haven't raised the panel where the drivers & radio ops scopes/ventilation fan/travel lock sit. This should be a thicker bit of armour and correspondingly higher than the rest of the hull top armour. You can see this for example on HLD's drawings in Panzer Tracts 5-3 as well as Sammys photos in this thread. I started on my Panther this weekend and here's the mod with 10 or 15 thou card, I can't recall what I used :o

http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y274/Andrewausfa/Dscf0063.jpg

HTH - Andrew

[Larry Bates]

Hmmmmmmmmm,

Well, at first I was skeptical but it looks to be like good info!Thanks Andrew. And here is the pic that shows it.

credit photo: Sam Dwyer.

[Andrew Hall]

I wouldn't mess you around Larry :)

Seriously though, you can see it's slightly higher on Doyles plans in Panzer Tracts and Germanys Panther Tank - in fact better in the latter book. The hull roof in general was 16mm armour while this front section was 40mm I think.

BTW I think your red primer looks about spot-on, at least on my monitor.

Cheers _ Andrew

[Larry Bates]

Thanks Andrew,

That thicker armour would definately make a difference.
As for the primer color, I think it's going to look pretty cool, but I sure farked up the photos when I compressed them. I'll have to go back and fix them up later.

;)

Larry

[Sheeds]

Thanks Andrew.

That info was new to me, now I have to re re do my Italian Panther. ;)

Your Panther's looking great Larry.

Willy.

[Larry Bates]

Originally posted by Willy Naylor@Jan 16 2006, 07:08 PM
Thanks Andrew.

That info was new to me, now I have to re re do my Italian Panther. ;)

Your Panther's looking great Larry.

Willy.
LOL,

Willy,

I thought you'd like that one. New surprises at every corner. Like a virgin's first time. :lol: Thank s for the compliment.

Larry

[Andrew Hall]

Guys, got to close off the day with this before I hit the sack.

I've had a few e-mails tonight on the subject which suggest further first person research of your nearest friendly Ausf.G would be in order (this only affects the G). At the moment, while I think we're agreeing it's raised per Hilary Doyles plans and photos it's by how much is the question. It also asks some questions about the relationship of the surrounding panels.

On my Panther I used 10 thou/.25mm card which works out in 1/35 about 9mm.

What we need to find out is if
a) 10 thou is OK
b) if 5 thou/.13mm would be better - this roughly corresponds to 5mm in 1/35
c) if we should bother at all and spend the evening watching sport on TV with a few cans instead.

In my case I'm heading down to Bovington in a couple of weeks armed with a laser micrometer thingy, notepad and a ham and mustard sandwich. If anyone's heading off to Koblenz soon please let me know.

Andrew

[sam_dwyer]

Gday Andrew, gday all,
thanks for volunteering to hit Bovvy in search of the truth! If only we had a museum of such quality here in Oz. I just checked the images I took at Koblenz in 03 - unfortunately I didnt really take shots of that area, too busy tooling around with the late pattern kastens, flammvernichters and wierd skid instead of roller thingy behind the sprocket.

How do I know that everyone is out there now scouring their image collection searching for shots of this area?

Sam

[Larry Bates]

aaaaaaaaahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh :o

the Hunt is on! sound the trumpets! release the dogs! CHARGE!!!!!!! :lol:

Thanks to all, past present and future.

[Larry Bates]

Ok,

So, rather than repost the triple shots of the turret I'll just repost one.

[sam_dwyer]

I knew somewhere that there were shots online, remembered Tanxheaven
www.tanxheaven.com
and found this
http://www.tanxheaven.com/panther/4.JPG

Here are the rest of the images. This panther has some great features..
http://www.tanxheaven.com/panther/pantherg.htm

and this shot - you can sort of see there is a step up, under that plate welded over the drivers holes
http://www.tanxheaven.com/dmk/Panther/PantherFKK-031.JPG

And you can definately see it here:
http://www.tanxheaven.com/dmk/Panther/PantherFKK-032.JPG

Images courtesy of Tanxheaven. Check this site out, LOADS of excellent images.


Sam

[mnickolson]

Here are a few I had. Hope they help..

Edit: Sorry Willy I overlooked those somehow. HMM

[Sheeds]

Thanks Mike.

The same shots had been posted a couple of pages back, by Sam. Coincidently, Sam took those photos of the Saumur Berge Panther a coupe of years ago....

Cheers, Willy.

[Larry Bates]

Hey guys,

I've seen the shots of both these tanks. The one is a real beat up thing, and lots of welded over plates and such. But the one from Aberdeen isn't alot better, just more paint. The only shot that I can find that really shows any difference is the shot Sam took of the bergepanther at Saumur.

Actually, I find the plate over the drive and radio ops stations interesting, check out the number of bolts you can see. ;)

[Sheeds]

Those are what I was telling you was missing from the Tamiya kit Larry. The four bolts for the travel lock, and the one for the MG plug retainer.

Cheers, Willy.

[Larry Bates]

You were? uh OK. I see them, :lol:
So much stuff to decipher as far as bolts, what's original what was welded on after,
as if all the changes by the werkstadt was'nt bad enough ;)

Ok, so all those bolts were for the travel lock pivot hinge plate, and one for the chain that held the mg blanking plug right?

Actually in my last post I meant the plate that is lifted off to change the tranny.

[brokeneagle]

Your Panther is looking great Larry. Especially the turret, great attention top detail.

[Larry Bates]

Thanks Ian,

[Larry Bates]

Well, the soldering Gods must have been in a good mood last night. :)
Here's some pics of what little modeling I got done last night.

Leading off with the first soldering of the front fenders. The pe fenders were cut from the sheet and anealed, then bent into shape using brass rod and somepvc pipe to persuade it into shape.
I'll go back in and fill the big curved seam with some low melting solder, so as not to disturb the first joint.

[Larry Bates]

these strips are supposed to go under the fenders near the outside edge.
I don't wholly trust Aber's directions so I must do some research and find a pic or drawing showing the underside of this part of the fender. It'll be clearer in the next pic.

[Larry Bates]

This pic shows all the major pieces for the fenders, there are also some small brackets and stops which are circled on the photo of the sheet of pe.

[Larry Bates]

Also, this little guy needs to be saved when you cut off the fenders, it houses the driving light.

[Larry Bates]

And, in the interest of doing something fast and easy, I glued the center pairs of road wheels together. ;)

Hopefully I'll be able to find an answer to my questions to forge ahead tonight.
I'll be holding off on the glacis join pending further research. ;)

[Andrew Hall]

these strips are supposed to go under the fenders near the outside edge.
I don't wholly trust Aber's directions so I must do some research and find a pic or drawing showing the underside of this part of the fender.

This do? :)

Andrew

http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y274/Andrewausfa/PantherDetails18sml.jpg

[Sheeds]

Nice work on the fenders Larry.

I dont envy you, the wheels are the most tedious part of the kit. :)

With your Bosch headlight mount, you could rat one out of DML's new Tiger 1...you get 4, 2 for the light and 2 with the contacts to have the light removed.

Cheers, Willy.

[sam_dwyer]

Looking great Larry.

The planets must have been in alignment last night, I was doing the exact same thing as you - soldering Panther front fenders - 'cept in 48th scale. Its great when one's soldering mojo is working!!

Sam

[Sticky]

Looks very nice indeed, super solderer! Funny, My solder joints came out really well last night too! Must be th Planet Mojo! :lol:

[Larry Bates]

Hey Guys,

Well, I was right the soldering gods were with us all. James T. really started it with his PIV stowage box. :) So, while waiting further info about the glacis plate/upper hull join, I had to do something, as I don't want to add a whole bunch of pieces before hacking up the hull.

Sam,
Dude your eyes must still be good.

Willy,
I hate painting the rubber part! You just want me to get one of those new TI's :lol: Well, maybe.

John,
Thanks man. I went to your site this morning. A book huh, cool.

Andrew,
The man with the details. Thanks, I guess Aber got it right! :lol:

Thanks.

Larry

[Larry Bates]

Ok, the soldering gods continued to smile on me last night, mostly...

Here are the added mounting strips. on the left front fender.

[Larry Bates]

I just about blew it on the last little bit I did. Just wanted to get a bit more solder on that extra strip under the fender. :( This was my first experience using two different solders of different melting points. The reinforcing strip was soldered just fine, but looked a little ragged at the edge, not enough solder. So I thought I'd just add a bit of lower melting solder to it to even it out. The result, well I found out that just because it's got a lower melting point doesn't mean it won't melt higher melting solder if you put it on top! :lol:

Anyway, the strip moved all over the place and I had to remelt the whole seam and reposition it. I got it almost all the way back. Will probably need to trim it.

so, enough dribble.....

[Larry Bates]

I couldn' wait any longer, I had to start cutting up the plastic on the glacis ;)
Here's the hole where the periscope for the driver was. I drilled holes around the perimeter, then used a #11 x-acto to cut it the rest of the way out.

[Larry Bates]

I cleaned up the rotating mount for the scope, then removed the guard over the top and the center piece that the scope goes through, with a dremel bit chucked, but not with the dremel on. I used the chuck just to hold the bit, as it's pretty hard to get a grasp of it by itself. Clear as mud? Alrighty then....

By the looks of the photo, I still have a little more to clean up.

I will scratch build the rotating bit and the guard, so I can turn it slightly. This will add some life to it.

[Sticky]

Larry are you burning the midnight oil? Keep it coming I like it. Oh BTW you DO have to be careful when using low melts, The iron is still hot enough to melt the higher temp solder! I have also started using a heat sink to protect previous joints if space permits!

Cheers!

[Larry Bates]

Thanks John,
I felt like I had to get something accomplished since I didn't get a chance to do much over the weekend. ;)

Larry

[mnickolson]

Larry,

Nice looking Fender. The glacis is looking good also. I am looking foward to seeing what it look's when finished. I will be a great guide when I do mine ;) .

Mike

[Larry Bates]

Thanks Mike.

L ;)

[Larry Bates]

Okay,

I got me a Kitpic account now. Let's see if I can post photos this way :lol:
The first one is the new rotating periscope, I still need to add some details. The first two are before the armoured guard.

http://www.kitpic.com/is.php?i=22762&img=0001_001.jpg

I glued one side with Tenax, then the other after the first had cured. It's not perfect but once I get the guard on it'll look ok.
http://www.kitpic.com/is.php?i=22763&img=0001_002.jpg

My setup..... :lol:
http://www.kitpic.com/is.php?i=22766&img=100_0023_4_(Sma.jpg

added some texture to the hull sides and glacis
http://www.kitpic.com/is.php?i=22764&img=0001_003.jpg

[Larry Bates]

Hey,

So, got a couple of hours in this weekend, here's what I did.

http://www.kitpic.com/is.php?i=23088&img=100_0022_3_(Sma.jpg
Started on scratching the rotating scope rain guard, the one in the middle is foil, the left one is from copper sheet that I soldered together.

http://www.kitpic.com/is.php?i=23084&img=100_0017_5_(Sma.jpg

This is a cardboard piece that I measured off H. Doyles drawings in GPT, and glued on to the sheet so I could cut it out.

http://www.kitpic.com/is.php?i=23085&img=100_0019_4_(Sma.jpg
This is the straight half

http://www.kitpic.com/is.php?i=23089&img=100_0023_5_(Sma.jpg
And here is the underside of the copper sheet one and the foil next to it.

[Larry Bates]

Well, obviously I wasn't quite satisfied with the one I did, and in the interest of moving ahead I did not mess around anymore with it, so I finished detailing the kit one.

http://www.kitpic.com/is.php?i=23090&img=100_0024_3_(Sma.jpg

Here is some more detail that Tamiya left out bolt heads on the perisciope ring.

http://www.kitpic.com/is.php?i=23086&img=100_0020_4_(Sma.jpg

nother shot.....these two shots are rough glue in before trimming
http://www.kitpic.com/is.php?i=23087&img=100_0021_4_(Sma.jpg

And here are the finished pieces

http://www.kitpic.com/is.php?i=23094&img=100_0028_(Small.jpg

[Larry Bates]

Started messing up the left fender with some slight damage, and don't know if you can make it out but a bullet hole......

http://www.kitpic.com/is.php?i=23091&img=100_0025_3_(Sma.jpg

a little bent up......

http://www.kitpic.com/is.php?i=23092&img=100_0026_4_(Sma.jpg

and with the mount for the bosche headlight...

http://www.kitpic.com/is.php?i=23093&img=100_0027_2_(Sma.jpg

[Larry Bates]

Also picked these up yesterday, not sure if I'll use these or wait for the Mori ones to come in from Singapore. ;)

http://www.kitpic.com/is.php?i=23095&img=100_0029_(Small.jpg

Well, that's it for tonight, hopefully get some more done tomorrow. :)

[Vadster]

Originally posted by Larry Bates@Jan 30 2006, 01:12 AM
Well, obviously I wasn't quite satisfied with the one I did, and in the interest of moving ahead I did not mess around anymore with it, so I finished detailing the kit one.

And here are the finished pieces

http://www.kitpic.com/is.php?i=23094&img=100_0028_(Small.jpg
I do like the final one the best - plastic looks good.

[Sticky]

Right smart looking your progess is! Keep it coming!

[Larry Bates]

Thanks Alex, John

I'm going to forge ahead as I want to get to paint on this one! :)

Larry

[Sheeds]

Looking the shiz Larry. Now hurry up and get this thing finished so we can see some paint on it! ;)

Willy.

[Larry Bates]

:)

Thanks dooode.

L

[brokeneagle]

Top work Larry . That must have been really fiddly work on the periscope....well done! ;)

[Larry Bates]

Thanks bud,

It wasn't that bad really. I drilled holes all the way through then stuck the plastic rod in, glued then cut off and filed flat. ;) The shade, that was a pain. LOL.

Larry

[lucatolo]

Hi Larry,

Top modelling !! I wish I could work with PE and scratchbuild like you do!
Keep us posted!!

:thumb:

Luca

[Larry Bates]

Well,

Thank you Luca. It just takes practice. :thumb:

Larry

[Finnmodeler]

Originally posted by Larry Bates@Feb 16 2006, 08:42 AM
Well,

Thank you Luca. It just takes practice. :thumb:

Larry
Hi Larry,
impressive work you are doing there! I agree on that practice makes a master...or something like that :lol:
I wish also to possess similar skills as you.

Niko

[Larry Bates]

Niko,

Thanks, you're all too kind.

Larry

[Larry Bates]

Good evening all,

I finally got a chance to model a bit, so I tackled the glacis/upper hull plate join.

what do you think? first one is an overall with some items just placed....not glued

http://www.kitpic.com/is.php?i=24201&img=100_0018_2_(Sma.jpg

this one is a closer look at the welds and the added thickness of the front plate on the roof.

http://www.kitpic.com/is.php?i=24202&img=100_0021_(Small.jpg

This one's a close up of the new ball mount for the mg, by Mori.....and also the mg from "Tahnk"

http://www.kitpic.com/is.php?i=24203&img=100_0022_(Small.jpg

Next are some shots of the Mori sproket, and some of the WWII Panther late tracks. These tracks are really nicely detailed, and while they take abit of clean up its not that bad, just need a sharp #11, then all you have to do is click them together. :)

http://www.kitpic.com/is.php?i=24204&img=100_0023_(Small.jpg

http://www.kitpic.com/is.php?i=24205&img=100_0024_(Small.jpg


http://www.kitpic.com/is.php?i=24206&img=100_0025_(Small.jpg

[sam_dwyer]

Yay Larry!
Nice update there. Great work on the upper plate/glacis join.

Keep at it, and hurry up with more updates!

Sam

[RC_Hill]

Originally posted by sam_dwyer@Feb 20 2006, 10:51 PM
Yay Larry!
Nice update there. Great work on the upper plate/glacis join.

Keep at it, and hurry up with more updates!

Sam
YES MORE UPDATES! This is PP after all (planet panther) lol

Looks great Larry!

Hey, hows that Tahk Mg? Any good? Most of their stuff seems pretty nice :)

Asta manana.....

[Sheeds]

Very very nice Larry.

I would say your building has gotten neater as you've progressed. The job on the glasis would have been the most challenging, yet I think its the neatest part of the build thus far.

Infact, its a farking excellent job mate! :thumb:

Willy.

[Larry Bates]

Originally posted by sam_dwyer@Feb 21 2006, 12:51 AM
Yay Larry!
Nice update there. Great work on the upper plate/glacis join.

Keep at it, and hurry up with more updates!

Sam
Hey Sam,

Thanks, my bench is free now so I can leave my stuff out all the time :)
Now maybe I can get something DONE! :lol:

Larry

[Larry Bates]

Originally posted by ramcke_jager@Feb 21 2006, 01:15 AM
YES MORE UPDATES! This is PP after all (planet panther) lol

Looks great Larry!

Hey, hows that Tahk Mg? Any good? Most of their stuff seems pretty nice :)

Asta manana.....
Hello R.C.,

Planet Panther back in action....... :lol:
Thanks for the kudo's. (damn, did I say kudos?)

The Tahnk mg is pretty nice, got it with the mg 34 set which is quite nice. Hmm, maybe I should put the new Shatton mg 34 brass barrel on one of the Tahnk mg 34's. I'll post a pic up tonight.

Hasta la vista !

Larry

[Larry Bates]

Originally posted by Willy Naylor@Feb 21 2006, 02:09 AM
Very very nice Larry.

I would say your building has gotten neater as you've progressed. The job on the glasis would have been the most challenging, yet I think its the neatest part of the build thus far.

Infact, its a farking excellent job mate! :thumb:

Willy.
Thanks Willie,

I'm not completely done with it yet so theres still time to mess it up :lol: .
The mg ball is a bit of a pain, as it doesn't really have a good way of anchoring it to the glacis, and you must trim the opening to accept it. I trimmed it too much and so had to put some card behind the hole to support it , which meant that I had to sand down the thickness to get it sitting right.

So, thanks guys, I'll try to post some more stuff maybe tonight.

Larry

[Sticky]

Agree, most excellant progress. I like those tracks!

[Larry Bates]

Ahhh, hey Johnnie,

Yes, I like the tracks very much. I wish my camera were good enough to get a shot of the serial number at the end of each link. (maybe it's just the photographer. :lol: ) Thanks.

Larry

[Finnmodeler]

Hi Larry again,
your cat looks just...well, no words to describe. Keep it up:) This reminds of Panther A I haven't finished. Hmm, where did I put that?

Br,

Niko

[MrPlasticmodel]

Hi Larry
Indeed very beautiful modelling ;)
I just have a question I can see that you have raised the plate under the drivers and radiooperator vision In the model they are even flat, I have just checked but I ca'nt find a photo of it.

[Andrew Hall]

Looking good Larry.

To answer to "MrPlasticModels" post above on the glacis, Dan if you trawl back through Larrys build you'll see a bit from me about this thicker plate. This reminds me I said a few weeks ago I'd go down to Bovvie and prove I wasn't making it up. Well I wasn't. :)

What this means is all available Panther G kits are wrong in this area.

http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y274/Andrewausfa/DSCF0200a.jpg

Andrew