DML Sd.Kfz 251/21

[sam_dwyer]

Given that I have finished a few projects lately, I thought i'd look at starting this:
http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y82/samd1/kit.jpg

Ive been slowly collecting aftermarket, starting with these 251 tracks from Anvil, sadly now defunct:
http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y82/samd1/anvils.jpg

Hussar front tyres
http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y82/samd1/wheels.jpg

And aaalll this Aber:
http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y82/samd1/35167.jpg

http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y82/samd1/35168.jpg

http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y82/samd1/35169.jpg

http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y82/samd1/35170.jpg

http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y82/samd1/35171.jpg

There are still two more Aber sets winging their way from Blast Models, the late bonnet/hood and upper armour (sort of duplicating the upper armour in the early set) and also the hull floor. Ive got my fingers crossed that by the time I get to the drilling mount itself, Aber will have an etch set for that too.

Yes I know that the DML kit has some dimensional issues, but the kit builds up very well

Sam

[Finnmodeler]

Hi Sam,
quite an impressive set of AM stuff there:) You may already know that Eduard has released PE set for this but as I looked through instructions from their web site, I was disappointed. There were only few parts for Drilling itself.
I have Aber's Basic set for my Drilling also and I'm going to settle for that IF there is no spesific set available before completion. Perhaps there will be barrels, too...

Niko

[James Tainton]

post fequent updates Sam. I have several of the 1,2,and 3 Aber sets, still waiting for the others to hit Air Connection. I will be following this build with interest. I sometimes wonder why Aber doesn't just release metal kits-hulls and all.

[Piet Duits]

Sam,

Maybe it's just my modelling limitations, but it seems to me that the Aber backplate armor for the DML kits don't fit exactly.
Besides that, the kits lower hull needs 0,8mm strips to make the PE upper hull fit.

I asked Aber if the update sets were also intended for the much nicer AFV Club 251 Ausf. D, but I got as an answer they are working on sets for those kits too. That was after I already ordered -and received- the PE sets through Jadar ...

About the backplate armor: if you compare the kit part and the PE you'll notice that the kit's part has an additional strip to fit on the lower hull. The PE part doesn't have that. I also have my strongest doubts it will fit, so if you can manage to make it fit, I will try it too
(pictures is what I need! pictures!) :lol:

Happy modelling,



Piet

[Andrew Hall]

Do you think you'll be building it happily and then halfway through all those little AMS devils in your mind start to eat away at you 'you need to widen the upper armour', 'the Drilling mount's too tall', 'two flip up seats or a bench seat'......??? :)

Looking forward to seeing what you do on this.

Andrew

[sam_dwyer]

Hi Guys,

Piet, thats slightly troubling that the rear plate doesnt fit..ahaha my AMS demons probably didnt need to hear that before I start construction! ;)

Andrew, after many months of zen like introspection, I figure I'm just going to enjoy building the kit with all the Aber, do what I can about the dimensional issues, and accept it - afterall, who among us doesnt have dimensional issues themselves? ahahahahah

Sam

[philstutcinskas]

man , you are weird ;) All of that etch, you need serious help my friend. shall be watching this one closely.
Phil stutcinskas

[Dragan]

Really no comment ! can't wait to see progress pics

[sam_dwyer]

Last lot of etch arrived today for this bad boy.

http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y82/samd1/35172.jpg

http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y82/samd1/35174.jpg

I started construction over the weekend, front suspension and tracked running gear are together. I cant say that im overly happy with the mods to the front suspension as per the Aber instructions, the whole set up is very fragile... pics to follow.

[Flak]

:o I am watching ...keep the pictures coming...

I would like to get those Aber's for my 251 vehicle also...

[Finnmodeler]

Originally posted by sam_dwyer@Oct 10 2005, 02:26 AM
I started construction over the weekend, front suspension and tracked running gear are together. I cant say that im overly happy with the mods to the front suspension as per the Aber instructions, the whole set up is very fragile... pics to follow.
Hi Sam,
I agree with you about Aber's very fragile looking construction. Also they propose you to SB totally some parts like steering column! All Aber does is to add one part (number 90) to it :angry: Looks that some of the sub assemblies should be soldered to get some strength to the whole suspension.
Other than that set looks pretty comprehensive. I've been considering to get floor set also as I'm not very happy with DML's floor.

Br,

Niko

[Sheeds]

Wow Dude, you're going to waste all that AM....including the hens teeth Anvil tracks on a DML 251......? Good luck.

A pig with lipstick......is still a pig.

Willy.

[Finnmodeler]

Originally posted by Willy Naylor@Oct 13 2005, 12:42 AM
Wow Dude, you're going to waste all that AM....including the hens teeth Anvil tracks on a DML 251......? Good luck.

A pig with lipstick......is still a pig.

Willy.
Man,
are you spoiled or what ;)

Niko

[panther]

I just fininshed mine. I didn't use one bit of photo etch and does it look great. The kit does need a little improvement but I'll use the money I saved and buy a DML Sdkfx 251/2.
Mike

[sam_dwyer]

Well, after staring at the pile of shiney stuff, I thought I should launch back into it.
First update.
Abers front suspension mods, I still have to add a few things, a steering arm being one
oh yeah and the join seam on the axle dealy..
http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y82/samd1/_DSC4767.jpg

Hussar front wheels and Anvil tracks. I cut and readjusted the idler to get the tracks to sit nice
http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y82/samd1/_DSC4768.jpg

Aber set 35172 is a new floor. It basically glues straight over the kit floor, and it corrects the undersize tranny hump inherent to DML 251's
http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y82/samd1/_DSC4765.jpg
http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y82/samd1/_DSC4766.jpg

More to come
Sam

[Evan August]

Very nice so far so Sam! That Aber floor looks great, a real improvement. Makes me want to start a new 251! :lol:

[James Tainton]

looks real cool
I'm not sure about this sentence- how did you adjust the idler wheel? Do you nmean the drive wheel? :(
I cut and readjusted the idler to get the tracks to sit nice

another thing I notice is the floor access hatches- these look like they have knobs to open them up-shouldn't they be recessed pull rings-I'm going to consult the old reference books.... I love the look of the naked chassis with those tracks in place.http://www.kitpic.com/is.php?i=11131&img=thumb.jpg

[sam_dwyer]

Hi James - re the idlers well the last wheel on the suspension assembly - i cut em off, and reattached at an angle that allowed the tracks to sag nicely.

In regards to the inspection hatch locks, I think they had some sort of keyed lock - all ive got handy reference wise at the moment is the Wydawnictwo 251 in Polish Museums book, and there is a shot in the top right of P39 that shows what I think is the underside of the locking mechanism of an inspection hatch..

Sam

[James Tainton]

Maybe I was thinking of the Sd.Kfz.11 floor plating details. Here is one rather graphic pic for you from the new Concord book on German Half-Tracks of World War Two by F. De Sisto
http://www.kitpic.com/is.php?i=19121&img=25122pic.jpg

[sam_dwyer]

Little bit of an update:

The kit supplied dash has been detailed up with the Aber set, and the lower hull sides have been detailed and added to the chassis. So far, all ive done is replace the molded on upper armour sections with 10 thou Evergreen

http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y82/samd1/_DSC4783.jpg

http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y82/samd1/_DSC4784.jpg

Sam

[Larry Bates]

How did I miss this update? Looking nice Sammy! :thumb:
I gotta git me one of these....
Larry

[sam_dwyer]

Another small update. Its damn near 40 degrees C here, and wasnt really in the mood for modelling, and my soldering Mojo wasnt really with me, so some of this may get unsoldered and redone..

If there is anything harder to photograph than shiney photo etch brass, i'm yet to find it. The metering on the camera I think just gave up in dispair!

http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y82/samd1/_DSC5210.jpg

The extra shiney areas are where ive had at some excess solder with a wire brush in an el cheapo motor tool. The Dremel I have damn near melts brass at its lowest setting.
http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y82/samd1/_DSC5211.jpg

http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y82/samd1/_DSC5213.jpg

This join (rear plate to upper plate) definately will be redone.
http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y82/samd1/_DSC5214.jpg

Sam

[James Tainton]

I hope to learn from this one...I'm wondering maybe to do the door hinges and doors before adding to the side armour and maybe doing the front vision ports stuff too before soldering everthing together...maybe that way there is more elbow room? Just a thought? Hmm another one just poped into my head. Perhaps , since painting brass and having it stay is a challenge.... a soft roughening up with 600 grit or so to give a tooth to the brass prior to bending and folding would be the easier time to do it. I find that paint breaks off on the edges of the brass and this to me me seems to be the only drawback of the material. I would like to use a metal primer but that stuff might wreck the airbrush- you know like a two part zinc chromate type deal... there is other "metal etch" primer in spray bombs but it really doesn't bond to the metal- it's more like a plastic coating that cures.... This amount of brass will be interesting to paint- if it is to last maybe a different method than the one we use for plastic will be needed. Maybe because the metal heats up and cools down pretty fast compared to plastic may cause problems with the inherent vice??? I have a couple of these sets now so this will be interesting.....

[sam_dwyer]

Gday James,

Been there done that before:
http://www.missing-lynx.com/articles/german/sd250/sd250.htm

http://www.missing-lynx.com/articles/german/sd250/unfinished2.jpg

http://www.missing-lynx.com/articles/german/sd250/primed1.jpg

http://www.missing-lynx.com/articles/german/sd250/finished1.jpg

in regards to painting over mountains of etch. I use automotive self etch primer, in a rattle can. Sounds a little basic I know, but it seems to work.

My skillz with the iron arent up to your standard as yet, so I will probably tackle things like visors and so on using CA glue.

Youre right tho, I think a different approach will be in order for this one, and im actually looking forward to painting this time around!

Sam

[James Tainton]

Thanks for the link- looks like an interesting article... As for the model when did you do that? Is it still around. If so is the paint holding up okay? Especially on the edges? I have used that type of auto etching primer before, or maybe yours is different. I was not really happy with the results.
This is the stuff I have.
http://www.kitpic.com/is.php?i=21319&img=etchprimer.jpghttp://www.kitpic.com/is.php?i=21320&img=primer2.jpg

The store I bought it from said that there really isn't a metal primer that etches it's more like a coating that cures and becomes hard. But it doesn't molecularly bond with the metal- which is Ideally what would be good for something like this. I have come across some stuff working on a movie this last spring (called The Fog) where we needed to prime some metal parts for a boat. It was a two part thing that had a working time before it was no good.... what was the name of that stuff.... I'll have to look into it.... Can you tell me the exact name of the stuff you used? The manufacturer... maybe there is some info on the net I could look up on it? Maybe it's the right stuff and if it is I'll want to get some.


Ask the Expert Question-and-Answer Archive
by Ron Joseph
July, 2002

Zinc Chromate Primers, Wash Primers and Epoxy Primers

Q. I am an aircraft structural engineer. Usually we use three different kinds of primers--zinc chromate primer, wash primer and epoxy primer. I want to know the difference between these three kind of primers.

A. Wash primers are water-thin coatings of phosphoric acid in solutions of vinyl butyral resin, alcohol and other ingredients. They are generally applied to give a dry film thickness of 0.3-0.5 mils (8-13 microns). The purpose of wash primers is to passivate steel and galvanized surfaces before applying a full bodied primer. Their functions are to passivate the surface and temporarily provide corrosion resistance, and they are used to provide an adhesive base for the next coating. Sometimes, wash primers are also applied to aluminum and other metals to enhance adhesion of the next coats of paint. When treating aluminum and other difficult-to-paint metals, wash primers are often specially formulated so that there is no excess unreacted acid on the surface after is has been applied.

Zinc chromate is simply a corrosion resistant pigment that is added to certain coatings. In the case of a wash primer, the phosphoric acid actually reacts with the metal, whereas in the case of zinc chromate this is not the case. In dry, low humidity weather the zinc chromate does not do anything other than remain in the coating. On the other hand, when the humidity in the air increases, or on a rainy day moisture for the air penetrates the primer coating and slightly dissolves the zinc chromate. The dissolved zinc chromate solution now does react with the underlying metal surface and forms a passive layer (like a blanket|) that prevents corrosion. As soon as the weather becomes dry again the zinc chromate no longer pays a role ... at least until the next time it rains, when the process is repeated. If there are frequent cycles of high and low humidly the zinc chromate will eventually be depleted and soon after you might start to see corrosion of the metal..

Zinc chromate pigments can be added to primers made of several different resin types, such as epoxy, polyurethane, alkyd and others.

On the other hand, there are epoxy, polyurethane, alkyd and other primers that do not contain zinc chromate, but might instead contain other corrosion inhibiting pigments.

[sam_dwyer]

Sorry James, for the life of me I cant remember the name of the stuff I used, I think it was just some generic brand from the shop I purchased it from. I do know that VHT make ace hi temp engine enamel paint in a rattle pack - perhaps they do a self etch primer.

The 250 article was from 2002 maybe (?), and the paint is still in great condition. Granted the model has been sitting in a cabinet since those last pics were taken!

Sam

[brokeneagle]

Great work Sammy , as usual. Thats a lot of brass........ can't wait to see it at the next stage. :) Is this a brand new Aber set or has it been around a while?

[Flak]

Hi Sam,

Very nice built...I also got all the new Aber's sets for 251...I'm planning to build a super detail personal carrier 251/D in near future :lol:

[Stuke Sowle]

Freakin' A Sam!! Are you trying to build a replica of a 251 using the same materials as the damn vehicle?? Where's the plastic?? :lol:

Superb work, love the 250 as well, very unusual paint scheme on that one.

[Larry Bates]

Damn Sam,

Another one I missed, by a month! Ok, well I was out of town, well state. ;)
Being Christmas and all. Looks Rad! Between you and Willie using RED primer mine looks like brown! :lol:

Nice one, nice article too.

Larry