Initial Tiger I

[Finnmodeler]

Hi,
as almost any tank modeller I have one, too ;) At first I was going to do a quick build ootb but as I got deeper into it I discovered that some work is ahead.
At first I tried to find a correct version but I gave up as I didn't find out enough info. Problem is that if you do ootb DML version, in WHICH month did it have this configuration? First tanks arrived in August and then there was only two crowbars in hull. When was all the tools added? September or later?
Anyway, model itself is very nice and with care you can build excellent looking beast. In this Vbench I try to uncover problems I stumbled into and additions I've made.
I started this some time ago so I don't have pics right from the start but as it was quite basic build, there wasn't much to see.
I was a bit disappointed with the quality of DML PE so I wanted to try Aber tool clasps and holders. I use the newer set(2002) that has smaller parts opposed to their original set. I must say that resizing to smaller didn't help to build those at all:D
Here is one clasp or what ever added to turret box:

http://www.kitpic.com/is.php?i=15923&img=Box_lock.jpg

First tool holder added to hull. This was one of the holders for crowbars? DML's plastic version wasn't very convincing so I replaced it with Aber. It's workable but I think I should glue together as long as it still is there!

http://www.kitpic.com/is.php?i=15928&img=Tool_holder.jpg

Once again, PE from DML was too clumsy looking and hard to bend so replaced it with lead foil. From pics you can see I had to add some putty to hull corner I wasn't able to aling parts 100% correctly:

http://www.kitpic.com/is.php?i=15926&img=Headlight_cable.jpg

I' not sure if Aber holders will cover holes so I hide them first with sprue.

http://www.kitpic.com/is.php?i=15927&img=Hull_holes.jpg

Fender holders are a bit of a mystery also. There should be a bracket in fenders but DML's version is too big? I should have remade those but I ended using kit PE. I shaved off plastic hooks from hull so I had to add PE to it. Problem arises as PE hooks are too short. I did two things.

To right side I added some sprue to PE to make it longer:

http://www.kitpic.com/is.php?i=15925&img=Fender_holder.jpg

To left side I just glued the hook upside down. I'm not sure if it was possible but there it is:

http://www.kitpic.com/is.php?i=15924&img=Fender_holder2.jpg

More to follow later.

Niko

[Finnmodeler]

Addition with one pic.
As fuel tanks and fans were supposed to be painted before glued under hull, I did first with black. Further examining for correct color revealed that those should be hull red. Tamiya Hull Red should be quite correct straight from the jar but I don't have it, of course. I used a mix of Humbrol Wine red and old but still usable Track color from Humbrol Authentic Color range. It worked pretty well with black underside, IMHO. I painted blades with Humbrol Polished steel from Metallic Color range. I polished few blades so those shine a bit. Not that you could see much after glueing in place.

http://www.kolumbus.fi/niko.asposalo/Tiger%20I/Fueltanks.jpg

[Finnmodeler]

Oh, and one thing. Has anyone tried to glue those jerrycans together? I haven't been able to use that PE as it doesn't fit between cans :o WHAT am I doing wrong :lol:

Niko

[frank blanton]

Hello Niko,
Nice work on the Tiger. I am finishing up my Initial Tiger 1 and I bowrowed a copy of Military Miniatures in Review guide to the Tiger most helpful in determining the answers to the questions you have. I did find out that the crowbar issue is August 42 and that tanks issued to the 502 in August had two crowbars the second being at an angle. If you can obtain a copy of this book it is really worth it, being primarrily an Allied Armor guy it was most helpful. I am doing mine as factory new having compleated a test in the water tank. Yes I could not get my jerry cans to go together with that photo etch. I just put the plastic parts together and threw the photo in the parts bin.
Frank :lol:

[James Tainton]

I haven't built mine as yet so I can't comment directly on this but the problems and quality of the Dragon kit does not surprise me- I have a rather jaundiced eye when it comes to the quality of their product since the Leopold and Karl fiascos. It seems like many people are happy with a lot of bells and whistles. Thanks for posting your progress report- keep it brutally honest eh? :lol: We don't want no cuckolding.

[Finnmodeler]

Originally posted by frank blanton@Aug 7 2005, 08:11 AM
Hello Niko,
Nice work on the Tiger. I am finishing up my Initial Tiger 1 and I bowrowed a copy of Military Miniatures in Review guide to the Tiger most helpful in determining the answers to the questions you have. I did find out that the crowbar issue is August 42 and that tanks issued to the 502 in August had two crowbars the second being at an angle.
hi,
yes I have that book, too. It certainly does help in many issues. But there is lot of gaps that are not covered with MMiR, Achtung Panzer and Doyle Tiger books or maybe I haven't studied books carefully enough. Doyle's book has one pic that has Tiger with crossbars.
Dragon should have included some info about these Tigers like when this equpiment was installed etc. I'm not sure if there should be tow cables after all. And what bugs me most is that there are no screens to engine deck! I've HEARD that Eduard and Aber for Tamiya Tiger works but I'm not so sure about that. I have Lion Roar PE for Tamiya Late but screens doesn't sit to Dragon. So some work with those still ahead.
So what I decided was that I'll do it as DML proposes and try to see this as a painting rehearsal. Tracks seem to include lot of joyful? work but I'll try to tackle them.
After this I'll dig into two late Tiger I's, DML and Tamiya. Those will have a different approach regarding almost everything but that is just in the near future...

Good? to hear that I'm not the only one with useless PE :)


Niko

[Finnmodeler]

Originally posted by panzerfaust@Aug 7 2005, 08:25 AM
I haven't built mine as yet so I can't comment directly on this but the problems and quality of the Dragon kit does not surprise me- I have a rather jaundiced eye when it comes to the quality of their product since the Leopold and Karl fiascos. It seems like many people are happy with a lot of bells and whistles. Thanks for posting your progress report- keep it brutally honest eh? :lol: We don't want no cuckolding.
Hi James,
yes I'll try to keep an objective eye on my build. I was "a bit" disappointed as I thought from all the reviews this to be THE model.
I also had DML Leopold and Karl but I sold those as I didn't have the guts to start the work to really scratchbuild them. I'm struggling with this now and also 251c story should continue soon.
As it comes to Tiger I initial, what do you do with those extras? I know they are great and look very nice but you should build a dio with those ammo etc. Bucket is too heavy(thick and big) to be used. PE for tools and jerry cans are almost useless. What can you do with ammo and boxes? Torsion bars were a nice addition, too but you can't use those as they are too weak. Well, I could go on but I may piss someone off :lol:
Dragon is going to right direction with added PE and metal barrels etc. but they need to do more work to make it perfect. I have their M4A2 and have high hopes regarding that. Well, weld seams to be added and idler wheel has no back side etc..
Please, don't get me wrong. DML is doing great job by releasing lot of new never seen stuff. I've just got a wrong idea just by reading reviews, my fault that is actually. They just could be doing a bit greater stuff.

Niko

[Finnmodeler]

No pic update, just text for now :( I've done some painting and added Aber tool brackets. I had high hopes for engine deck screens as I removed Eduard screens from already built Tamiya R/C Early Tiger I. Unfortunately smaller screens don't fit :angry: I have also tried LR's PE screens for Tamiya Late Tiger I but without success!
Back to square one with this. Does anyone manufacture ONLY deck screens for DML Tiger I?

Niko

[Evan August]

I'm building one of these myself now, and I too was pissed off about the lack of engine screens. It's a pretty nice kit, but it seems strange that no engine screens were included when they put all the other stuff in. Oh well, just commenting on that. Anyway, a company by the name of Gumka produces a set of engine screens for this kit, #T13. However, they are a pain to find (of course). Rainbow 10 is the only place I have found that carries them. I've never ordered from them, but I hear good things and I suppose I'll have to anyway. Good Luck with your project!

Rainbow 10:
http://www.rainbowten.co.jp/english/index.html

[Finnmodeler]

Hi,
I found a set from HLJ, too:
http://www.hlj.com/product/GMKT-13

Thanks for the tip, Evan!

Niko

[Evan August]

Glad to be of help Niko! Of course HLJ, why didn't I think of them? I went ahead and ordered a set last night.

[Finnmodeler]

Hi,
I did order, too. Now Tiger really is in state that waits for screens. Well, I could of course glue those tracks:D

Niko

[Finnmodeler]

Added Gum-Ka screens to engine deck. Fit is very, not perfect but good enough. Screens look nice but those must pushed a bit so screens doesn't look unrealistic.

http://www.kolumbus.fi/niko.asposalo/Tiger%20I/TigerIscreens.jpg

And taking pics is a blessing as I noticed that last night's paint session didn't cover all places. You can see some plastic showing underneath PE screens. That was hard to see from model but picture shows it very well.

I'm still struggling with those tracks that are quite a task:(
And, as I did some studying regarding Initial Tigers, I noticed that fuel cells etc interior should be light blue-grey, not red brown! So that was a big mistake but I won't correct that anymore.

Niko

[James Tainton]

Originally posted by Finnmodeler@Oct 2 2005, 05:28 AM
I did some studying regarding Initial Tigers, I noticed that fuel cells etc interior should be light blue-grey, not red brown! So that was a big mistake but I won't correct that anymore.


Thanks for the update-can I ask what info you are refereing to for the colour of the interior/fuel cells?

[Finnmodeler]

Originally posted by panzerfaust@Oct 2 2005, 09:58 AM
Thanks for the update-can I ask what info you are refereing to for the colour of the interior/fuel cells?
Hi James,
I'm referring to this:
http://www.network54.com/Forum/thread?foru...geid=1049122238 (http://www.network54.com/Forum/thread?forumid=47207&messageid=1049122238)


And sorry again, color should be grey-green, not blue-grey!

Niko

[Evan August]

Looking good Niko. Those Gum-Ka screen look pretty good, I haven't had a chance to install mine yet. Actually the Tiger has been shelved for some time, as I moved back to school. I made the same mistake on the fuel cells :( . Oh well, i don't think they will be that visible once it's done. I look forward to seeing the finished piece.

[Finnmodeler]

Hi all,
this is an update to this blog. Finally I got myself to next phase, weathering. As bsae color was too dark, I lightened it with mix of grey and flesh. This suggestion was made by a friend to whom I rely on when it comes to painting.
I've added 3 filters now with varying shades of grey. I've tempted to use some brownish or tannish filters but not sure. I use oil paints as those are so much easier to mix.

No more talk, here are pics.
http://www.kolumbus.fi/niko.asposalo/Tiger%20I/Pics%20004.jpg
http://www.kolumbus.fi/niko.asposalo/Tiger%20I/Pics%20005.jpg
http://www.kolumbus.fi/niko.asposalo/Tiger%20I/Pics%20007.jpg
http://www.kolumbus.fi/niko.asposalo/Tiger%20I/Pics%20008.jpg
http://www.kolumbus.fi/niko.asposalo/Tiger%20I/Pics%20009.jpg

More will follow later.
Any comments are welcome,

Niko

[Finnmodeler]

Well,
some work with this one. I have added some filters to Tiger, one being orange. It didn't destroy the outcome moreover gave some interest to it.

At this point I decided to add markings. I would have liked to paint all of them but there is no elephant stencils? So with crosses only this time. Eduard mask in place:
http://www.kolumbus.fi/niko.asposalo/Tiger%20I/cross1.jpg

Painted with Humbrol flat white thinned almost 70/30. I used note papers to cover rest of tank.
http://www.kolumbus.fi/niko.asposalo/Tiger%20I/cross2.jpg

Damned, some bleed but nothing major. Should have been more careful with mask.
http://www.kolumbus.fi/niko.asposalo/Tiger%20I/cross3.jpg

All in all, Eduard mask was easy to use and peeled off without damaging paint. Looks like mask is reusable, too.

Niko

[Finnmodeler]

Exhausts need some work before put in place. First I painted them with a mix of Tamiya Red Brown and Buff. Today I brushed few layers of heavily thinned Vallejo Leather Brown to give some life to paint job.
Tomorrow I'll add some Migments. I have no idea how those will look in the end but isn't that part of the hobby :lol:
http://www.kolumbus.fi/niko.asposalo/Tiger%20I/exhaust.jpg


Niko

[Finnmodeler]

In our last modeller's get together I was pointed out some of the mistakes in my project.
Biggest flaw was here, seams in hull. I didn't glue those together so there was a noticeable gap.
After considering possibilities I tried next approach:
- I opened seam a little bit with modelling knife.
- I glued a piece of stretched sprue and guled it with Tamiya glue.
- After it has set in place I pushed it with sharp end of tweezers to "blend" it with original seam.
- Next I painted it with Humbrol 67. I need to do some retouching but otherwise I'm quite happy with the result.

http://www.kolumbus.fi/niko.asposalo/Tiger%20I/seam.jpg

Niko

[Finnmodeler]

I've started also with tools. I'm using tools without brackets as Aber will hold them in place.

I painted with Humbrol wood first coat. I used brush with very thick paint. This way there will leave some marks to simulate wood grains.
Today I added few coats of Vallejo thinned with water. I'm tryin to achieve a vivid coat. Long way to go still :)

http://www.kolumbus.fi/niko.asposalo/Tiger%20I/tools.jpg

Second deficiency was missing wire for smoke grenades. Added but not yet painted:

http://www.kolumbus.fi/niko.asposalo/Tiger%20I/wire.jpg

[RC_Hill]

Very cool indeed :thumb:

[Finnmodeler]

A quick look at the tracks I'm using. At first I tried to glue DML's magical tracks together but I lost my nerves eventually! So Lionmar to the rescue :) So much easier to use. Pins are excellent but track shoes do have some cleaning to do. Nothing big but some work.

These are not handed tracks but who cares. I know it's a lear mistake but I'm not gonna sweat it. I want to finish this one :lol:
http://www.kolumbus.fi/niko.asposalo/Tiger%20I/tracks.jpg

Also a pic of Future floor wax added for decals. I will add decals tomorrow after was is totally dried. I don't want to Micro-Sol to attack it.
http://www.kolumbus.fi/niko.asposalo/Tiger%20I/varnish.jpg

Later,


Niko

[Panzergrenadier]

Hi,

Nice looking Tiger you got going one there. :thumb:



Siim

[Finnmodeler]

Thanks guys :) I'm trying to push to the (bitter?) end so I could continue with something else.
Anyway, one fix wasn't mentioned. as I used metal smoke grenade holders, weld seams were too high as those were designed for thicker plastic ones. I cut carefully extra away so it looks better now.
After decalling I'll add SOME scratches etc. and experiment with dust. We'll see how that goes...

Niko

[Larry Bates]

Niko,

Your Tiger is looking nice!

For the cross mask, try spraying very light coats of paint, and let dry, almost before adding the next coat, and this will help to not bleed under the mask. Also make sure to lightly burnish the edges of mask before you paint.


Larry

[lquah]

Niko

Nice work! :thumb:

Also, you may wish to try spraying at a lower pressure. It could help.

Lawrencew

[Finnmodeler]

Hi guys!
Thanks for suggestions. I did use too much pressure and I didn't burnish masks well enough and I didn't wait long enough between passes. So quite a lot of to improve for next time :lol:

Today I added decals. This is the part I hate most in modelling expecially when doing German planes with thousands of stencil decals! Good thing is that for this beast there is only few decals to add.
Unfortunate part is that there is 3-digit number. I have laways great difficulties when aligning more than one decal.
First I marked the bottom line for digits. This, I hope, helps getting them straight. I used Tamiya tape which was nice.
http://www.kolumbus.fi/niko.asposalo/Tiger%20I/Tiger1%20004.jpg
Then I brushed area with Micro Set, decaling solution in blue bottle. This should help removing all the extra grease etc. from surface.
One by one strating from 1 I added decals. DML decals are very thin and pleasant to use. You need to dip them into water only for few seconds and soon they are off. I use tweezers to put decals into surface. With brush and some extra water I slide decal into place. Carefuly I wipe extra water away and press slightly decal more firmly. When all decals for that location are in place, I brush them with Micro Sol from red bottle. This will wrinkle decals after few seconds but this is normal. In 10 minutes decals have straigthened and "sunked" into surface.
This time I got away without any air bubbles but I'm not pleased with these digits:
http://www.kolumbus.fi/niko.asposalo/Tiger%20I/Tiger1%20008.jpg

These are other decals:
http://www.kolumbus.fi/niko.asposalo/Tiger%20I/Tiger1%20006.jpg
http://www.kolumbus.fi/niko.asposalo/Tiger%20I/Tiger1%20009.jpg

Next I'll add varnish to cover them from washes. Tonight I painted tools etc. more but nothing that my poor camera would show...

Niko

[Larry Bates]

Niko,

Looks good from here, why are you not pleased with the decals? That's about as good as it gets with kit decals.

Larry

[brokeneagle]

Niko,
nice work. Decals are comming up great

[Finnmodeler]

Originally posted by Larry Bates@Jun 1 2006, 09:04 PM
Niko,

Looks good from here, why are you not pleased with the decals? That's about as good as it gets with kit decals.

Larry
Hi,
for my eyes digits on right side are misaligned somehow. Or maybe my eyes are crooked :lol:
And yes, decals themselves are excellent. Only by painting you would get better results.

Niko

[Larry Bates]

:)

[lquah]

It's coming along nicely. Keep up the good work. :thumb:

[Finnmodeler]

Last night I added mix of Migments and Tamiya thinner to exhausts. This is the end result. Not sure if it is ok. Maybe a bit too light. I will add some black to these.

http://www.kolumbus.fi/niko.asposalo/Tiger%20I/exhaust1.jpg
http://www.kolumbus.fi/niko.asposalo/Tiger%20I/exhaust2.jpg

Tracks were just a joy to build. If just pins were always ready for Friuls.... Tracks seem to twist some what but nothing serious. Next some paint on. I'm so excited about these tracks after battling with DML's "Magic-NOT! Tracks".

http://www.kolumbus.fi/niko.asposalo/Tiger%20I/tracksready.jpg

Tools have been painted with Vallejo few times now. I have tried to get some difference between them but nothing to be seen yet.

http://www.kolumbus.fi/niko.asposalo/Tiger%20I/tools2.jpg

First row of wheels in place. I'll add some dust and dirt to these. Not that it would be seen much but also a rehearse for outer wheels.

http://www.kolumbus.fi/niko.asposalo/Tiger%20I/innerwheels.jpg


Niko

[Finnmodeler]

Bugger! As would Hugh Grant say in his movies, I had to use this word today. I noticed that digits had some significant silvering in them :( This was when I was giving Future coat to them. But using an advice from plane modeller, I carefully, very carefully put some MEK over silvering parts of decals. MEK is so powerful that it melts decal right away. If you put it too much the whole decal will dissolve.
With patience and small amounts of MEK I managed to minimize silvering to acceptable level. So disaster avoided :)

Niko

[Panzergrenadier]

Going well.

:o I reallly like the exhausts. :thumb:



Siim

[Larry Bates]

Holy Moly Niko,

MEK? that's some potent mind numbing stuff! So, how does it work? I've never heard that one before. Have you also tried poking some pin holes in the decal to get the air to escape ? When I did plane models I liked to melt the decals as much as possible so when they settled they looked painted on.

Larry

[mnickolson]

Niko,

The exhausts look well stunning. :thumb: I must ask which pigments you used. I have one of these laying aroung half finished. Looking at yours makes me want to finish it.

Mike

[lquah]

Niko

Yeah, great job on the exhaust! :)

Lawrence

[Finnmodeler]

Thanks guys!
I'll write how-to-do info later. Now I put my son to bed :D

Niko

[Finnmodeler]

Ok,
kid safely in bed. I'll write briefly what I did with exhausts. It's all in all fairly simple.

First as you noticed, I sprayed glued parts with Tamiya Red Brown. This was a bit of error later on, you will notice why.
After drying some days I started process first by checking out my inventory of pigments I have. I don't have many of them so I was worried how to get proper shades.
I used Black Smoke, Light Rust, Dark Mud, Russian Earth, Ind City Dirt and CMK's Dark Earth. It is not necessary to use these, just right mix of brown and dark tones. One set of rust brings enough orange, IMHO.
I put small amounts of following Migments into a shallow plastic lid. I placed them quite near each other so they could be easily mixed but so that all would not mix into one big pool. I hope you know what I mean :o
I dropped few drops of Tamiya thinner between stacks?. With brush(size 0) I started mixing suitable shades very small amounts at the time. First I painted both exhausts with very bright rust color. At this point I noticed that painting parts with Tamiya paint wasn't such a good idea, it started to peel away!
Well, in the end pigments do cover very well so disaster avoided. After first coat I let it dry for a while before next stage. At this point I was very worried as exhausts looked like two bright sticks. I must say that I didn't much plan ahead, just went with the situ.
Next I mixed some black, mud etc, dark shades to a rather thin mix. With brush I started dipping mix all over parts. I did this with both until all were covered. Next I mixed another shade and did it all over again. I guess I repeated this process with different shades some 5-6 times changing the color and thickness of mix. If mix was very fluid, I painted it all over. If thicker, I just poked with brush here and there.
What is noticeable that pigments are very dark when wet. After drying they are very light so you can never do too dark unless using just black, I guess.
I'm not totally happy with the result but maybe next time it's better ;)

Niko

[Finnmodeler]

Originally posted by Larry Bates@Jun 6 2006, 07:37 AM
Holy Moly Niko,

MEK? that's some potent mind numbing stuff! So, how does it work? I've never heard that one before. Have you also tried poking some pin holes in the decal to get the air to escape ? When I did plane models I liked to melt the decals as much as possible so when they settled they looked painted on.

Larry
Hi,
yes MEK is the stuff you don't want to sniff too long.
Process is simple yet you have to be very very careful. Just take a small, say 0 or 2/0 pointed brush, dip it into MEK. Take extra MEK away and slowly touch decal with brush. Don't move it around, just touch it. If you move, bye bye decal :lol:
Immediately decal will dissolve into surface. Poking holes will help, es pecially if decal is on the thickish side(Tamiya for example).

Quite simple, right?

Niko